Atheism is the only rational position to take
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13-08-2017, 07:03 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(13-08-2017 06:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  [God] Is a term that entails primarily a question about a belief in a created order, a moral, and meaningful order, that life contains a purpose, as opposed to view of life an inherently nihilistic.

That's a false dichotomy. A meaningful order can come into existence without any conscious intelligence behind it.

You also have not discriminated between your hypothesized absolute purpose and relative purposes. We all, always have relative meanings in our lives.
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13-08-2017, 09:08 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(13-08-2017 06:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Like I said I understand what people mean when they say God, regardless of which religion they belong to. Just like I understand what they mean by chair.

I too understand what people mean when they use the word god. Gods are mythical, supernatural entities created solely in the minds of men. I'm quite OK saying that Bacchus is the Roman god of wine, or that Aphrodite is the Greek goddess of love, but that doesn't mean I use the terms in any literal sense—as modern-day Christians do with their god of choice. Big difference.

BTW, the arrogance of using an uppercase 'G' to define the Christian's god has no basis in history—which is why I never bother using anything other than a lowercase 'g' for any/all of these imaginary, mythical entities. Before Christianity raised its ugly head, the proto-Germanic word "guthan", meaning god, was both a neuter noun, and not capitalised either.

—I want my lawyer, my tailor, my servants, even my wife to believe in God, because it means that I shall be cheated and robbed and cuckolded less often..... If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. [Voltaire: Épître à l'Auteur du Livre des Trois Imposteurs ]

Voltaire also said that that within a hundred years of his day, c1770, the Bible would be "a forgotten book". What a pity he got this so wrong LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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13-08-2017, 09:35 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(13-08-2017 06:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The term God not specific to a particular religion, but used in the common question “do you believe in God”.

Is a term thar entail primarily a question about a belief in a created order, a moral, and meaningful order, that life contains a purpose, as opposed to view of life an inherently nihilistic.

That's what you mean. Can you show which and how many others share this definition?

Quote:I understand that when people ask me such a question, that this a significant part of what that entails, by what they mean by “God”.

The devil's in the details.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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13-08-2017, 08:41 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(13-08-2017 07:03 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  That's a false dichotomy. A meaningful order can come into existence without any conscious intelligence behind it.

If you mean the order folks like Dawkins, and many other self professing atheists believe in, than order isn't meaningful, it's meaningless. To give meaning to a thing, requires things like foresight, the sort of qualities we attribute to designed things.

If you identify as an atheist, but believe existence posses inherent meaning and purpose, in reality you're just a closeted theists.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-08-2017, 08:44 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(13-08-2017 09:35 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  That's what you mean. Can you show which and how many others share this definition?

Everyone that professes to believe in God, whether they be Hindhu, Buddhist, christian Muslim, etc...Everyone who would ever ask the question, as to whether you believe in God.

If you doubt that whatever they mean by God entails this, well then go ask them. Of course they might say that's not all that they mean, but you'll be hard pressed to find many people who don't accept this as part of what they mean.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-08-2017, 08:50 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(13-08-2017 09:08 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(13-08-2017 06:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Like I said I understand what people mean when they say God, regardless of which religion they belong to. Just like I understand what they mean by chair.

I too understand what people mean when they use the word god. Gods are mythical, supernatural entities created solely in the minds of men. I'm quite OK saying that Bacchus is the Roman god of wine, or that Aphrodite is the Greek goddess of love, but that doesn't mean I use the terms in any literal sense—as modern-day Christians do with their god of choice. Big difference.

BTW, the arrogance of using an uppercase 'G' to define the Christian's god has no basis in history—which is why I never bother using anything other than a lowercase 'g' for any/all of these imaginary, mythical entities. Before Christianity raised its ugly head, the proto-Germanic word "guthan", meaning god, was both a neuter noun, and not capitalised either.

—I want my lawyer, my tailor, my servants, even my wife to believe in God, because it means that I shall be cheated and robbed and cuckolded less often..... If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him. [Voltaire: Épître à l'Auteur du Livre des Trois Imposteurs ]

Voltaire also said that that within a hundred years of his day, c1770, the Bible would be "a forgotten book". What a pity he got this so wrong LOL.

Well apparently you don't know many non-christian religious folks, my hindhu friend don't just believe in gods, they believe in God as well. And we share a variety of beliefs about this God too.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-08-2017, 09:42 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(13-08-2017 08:41 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If you identify as an atheist, but believe existence posses inherent meaning and purpose, in reality you're just a closeted theists.

I would disagree with your equating of "inherent meaning and purpose" and belief in gods. In my case it doesn't matter, though -- I believe that nothing at all has inherent meaning, and that meaning must be created by each individual.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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13-08-2017, 10:09 PM
Atheism is the only rational position to take
(13-08-2017 09:42 PM)Astreja Wrote:  
(13-08-2017 08:41 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If you identify as an atheist, but believe existence posses inherent meaning and purpose, in reality you're just a closeted theists.

I would disagree with your equating of "inherent meaning and purpose" and belief in gods. In my case it doesn't matter, though -- I believe that nothing at all has inherent meaning, and that meaning must be created by each individual.


Well you clearly don’t believe in inherent meaning and purpose, so you’re not particularly the best person to argue that point now are you? You’re not particularly the person to be uncovered as a closeted theist.






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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-08-2017, 10:13 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
I can entertain the idea for the point of argument. At most one could arrive at some sort of pantheism, because the meaning would have to be vested in the substance of reality rather than through the auspices of a personal deity. The way I see it, any consciously "assigned" purpose would be delivered through the subjective perspective of the deity, and would be both tainted by the deity's perspective and never truly the property of the recipient.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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14-08-2017, 12:50 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(02-08-2017 02:16 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  No it is not. atheism is the only rational position to take.

I'd say ideally agnosticism but I'm experienced. Angel

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