Atheism is the only rational position to take
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02-08-2017, 04:57 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(02-08-2017 03:57 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(02-08-2017 03:33 PM)mordant Wrote:  Either here or over on atheistforums, one of the trolls recently posted a cartoon with a guy in the library and you could see three rows of bookshelves -- religion, science and atheism. With only the latter empty and with cobwebs in the corners.

The message being, I suppose, that atheism is intellectually bankrupt and based on nothing. In a backhanded way it IS based on nothing -- on the absence of valid substantiation, evidence or logical argument for theism -- which leads to there being no valid reason to believe theism's claims. And it is a narrow belief position on a single topic. So there isn't much to write about it as such. You'd have better luck filling a bookshelf on humanism or empiricism (or science, obviously).

And yet they are always complaining about all the books written by the "new atheists".
And about how all those science books are written by god-hating atheist scientists.
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02-08-2017, 05:02 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(02-08-2017 04:57 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(02-08-2017 03:57 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  And yet they are always complaining about all the books written by the "new atheists".
And about how all those science books are written by god-hating atheist scientists.

They don't seem to have a problem with contradicting themselves, but then again contradictions only matter if facts are what they are independent of consciousness. At least they are consistent in that.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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02-08-2017, 05:11 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(02-08-2017 03:33 PM)mordant Wrote:  ...
three rows of bookshelves -- religion, science and atheism.
...

Fiction
Non-fiction
No fiction

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02-08-2017, 06:41 PM
Atheism is the only rational position to take
(02-08-2017 03:08 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(02-08-2017 02:23 PM)Rachel Wrote:  Who is saying that atheism is irrational and why? The only people I’ve met who feel that are the ones who employ the argument from popularity or the bandwagon argument, that is, “50 Million Elvis Fans Can’t Be Wrong!”

A rejection of evidence-free claims is entirely justified. “Because I say so” only works on children and even then, not for very long.

Here's just one example: http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_irrationality


This isn’t terribly surprising considering Andrew undertook a project several years ago to excise the liberal elements from the Bible. Seriously.
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02-08-2017, 06:43 PM
Atheism is the only rational position to take
(02-08-2017 03:22 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  That has to be a record most shit loaded into a webpage.

And with no dissent allowed or even mentioned.
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02-08-2017, 09:00 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
Not only is the atheist position rational, it is the default position. A position we are all born into. In fact, the claims made by theists and theologians do closely resemble the official Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) for schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders. So ... yea ... atheism is plenty rational.

Atheism only exist because theist say so.
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03-08-2017, 02:48 AM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2017 02:51 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
I've heard a lot of people say it's irrational, but they don't understand what atheism is (or pretend not to for their ignorant audience). They also treat belief in the various different God concepts as being equally reasonable.

Belief in a "personal God" is clearly irrational, because this supposed God agrees with almost every theist who believes in it, while they disagree with each other. If they're having a relationship with anything real, they're almost all misunderstanding it so badly that they might as well not be. Or it could be fucking with them all, I suppose.

Belief in any kind of outside agent that acts upon our reality in unpredictable ways is irrational, due to the highly predictable nature of reality itself. All evidence suggested that it is, at best, just maintaining the status quo.

The hypothesis that our reality was willfully created, minus the rest of the garbage associated with "gods", is simply unfalsifiable. Lacking belief that it is so is certainly not irrational, because it's not yet possible to determine.

What believers are lacking the most, in my experience, are reasons why I should care if a creator exists or not. If it did, I wouldn't assume it's some maniac desperate to punish people for perceived missteps. And even if it is, I'm not going to be its bitch. I'm just not interested in joining cults or kissing anyone's arse, real or not.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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03-08-2017, 02:48 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
Atheism is the only "position" for me.

I'm not 100% sure who anybody can claim an Atheist is irrational, because we don't believe in any of the popular invisible people that live in the clouds.

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03-08-2017, 06:09 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(03-08-2017 02:48 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I've heard a lot of people say it's irrational, but they don't understand what atheism is (or pretend not to for their ignorant audience). They also treat belief in the various different God concepts as being equally reasonable.

Belief in a "personal God" is clearly irrational, because this supposed God agrees with almost every theist who believes in it, while they disagree with each other. If they're having a relationship with anything real, they're almost all misunderstanding it so badly that they might as well not be. Or it could be fucking with them all, I suppose.

Belief in any kind of outside agent that acts upon our reality in unpredictable ways is irrational, due to the highly predictable nature of reality itself. All evidence suggested that it is, at best, just maintaining the status quo.

The hypothesis that our reality was willfully created, minus the rest of the garbage associated with "gods", is simply unfalsifiable. Lacking belief that it is so is certainly not irrational, because it's not yet possible to determine.

What believers are lacking the most, in my experience, are reasons why I should care if a creator exists or not. If it did, I wouldn't assume it's some maniac desperate to punish people for perceived missteps. And even if it is, I'm not going to be its bitch. I'm just not interested in joining cults or kissing anyone's arse, real or not.

I think they don't understand what atheism is and what reason, logic, evidence, epistemology, and a whole host of other issues. Since they have no consistent view of metaphysical primacy, they alternate between the primacy of existence sometimes and the primacy of consciousness other times. They have no way to consistently distinguish between reality and the imaginary. They think that because they can imagine something is the case, they think that something becomes a legitimate possibility. They don't realize they are doing this because they are not even aware of the issue of primacy, haven't a clue what it is and what the implications of holding a mixed (contradictory) position on this issue are. They confuse reason, the outward looking, objective method of thinking, and rationalism, the inward looking, subjective way of thinking. So if they can imagine something and that something explains the state of affairs to their liking, Then they see no reason not to accept it. Ever notice that people, one and all, close their eyes when they commune with their god? They are doing this because God exists in their mind, their imagination, and they are turning inward to their imagination whenever they pray to this god.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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03-08-2017, 07:35 AM
Atheism is the only rational position to take
(02-08-2017 02:16 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Atheism is an individuals lack of belief in or rejection of the notion of a god or gods. That's all it is. It is not a worldview. It's a position on a single issue.

How about those who believe or know that God/s do not exist, are they atheists too?

For such individuals, sure atheism is no more of a worldview than theism is. They’re just positions on a single issue. Except of course this single positions tends to house a variety of positions, like a particular religion, and views of the nature of reality itself, like physicialism.

Quote:Theism holds the opposite principle: the primacy of consciousness. This is the principle that the things that exist are dependent upon and can be altered by conscious activity such as willing. It holds that "wishing does make it so".

Yea, that doesn’t follow.

It doesn’t seem that you’re speaking exclusively of solipsism.

And yes things that exist can be altered by conscious activity. Since it’s all reducible to molecules in motion, any particular conscious activity will cause a shift in the corresponding molecules. Conscious activity is still a physical activity.








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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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