Atheism is the only rational position to take
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-09-2017, 07:52 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(06-09-2017 07:43 PM)Naielis Wrote:  But the issue is that the atheist worldview lacks sufficient grounds to warrant belief in logical laws or induction. I'm not claiming the lack of belief in a god itself must be able to ground anything; rather, I'm saying a worldview that lacks the Christian God is incapable of providing grounds for intelligibility. That is to say that the atheist worldview cannot provide a foundation for any claims the atheist makes. For example, on what basis do you claim logic holds any weight? On what basis are you able to use inductive reasoning?

Anyone who values honesty and consistency can support the use of logic and induction to achieve accuracy. Are you claiming that atheists can't be honest and consistent?

The world itself is consistent. Atheists don't have to invent consistency, just observe it and use it like anyone else.

On the other hand, how can Christians claim sufficient grounds for logic and induction when they derive their ethics and worldview from the commands of a God, who is anything but dependable and consistent?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thoreauvian's post
06-09-2017, 08:33 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(06-09-2017 07:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Anyone who values honesty and consistency can support the use of logic and induction to achieve accuracy. Are you claiming that atheists can't be honest and consistent?

I am indeed claiming atheists can't ultimately be consistent, however, they can be honest. But my question is getting at what grounds logic and induction in the first place.

Quote:The world itself is consistent. Atheists don't have to invent consistency, just observe it and use it like anyone else.

But, on an atheist worldview, you have no basis on which to believe the universe is consistent or that we can observe or use anything.

Quote:On the other hand, how can Christians claim sufficient grounds for logic and induction when they derive their ethics and worldview from the commands of a God, who is anything but dependable and consistent?

In what way is the Christian god not dependable or consistent?

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-09-2017, 10:20 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(06-09-2017 07:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(06-09-2017 07:43 PM)Naielis Wrote:  But the issue is that the atheist worldview lacks sufficient grounds to warrant belief in logical laws or induction. I'm not claiming the lack of belief in a god itself must be able to ground anything; rather, I'm saying a worldview that lacks the Christian God is incapable of providing grounds for intelligibility. That is to say that the atheist worldview cannot provide a foundation for any claims the atheist makes. For example, on what basis do you claim logic holds any weight? On what basis are you able to use inductive reasoning?

Anyone who values honesty and consistency can support the use of logic and induction to achieve accuracy. Are you claiming that atheists can't be honest and consistent?

The world itself is consistent. Atheists don't have to invent consistency, just observe it and use it like anyone else.

On the other hand, how can Christians claim sufficient grounds for logic and induction when they derive their ethics and worldview from the commands of a God, who is anything but dependable and consistent?


That's not an accurate reflection of the Christian notion of what they see god as. You can read the NT in a number of ways but it is clear in its definition of what "God" is by saying that "In the beginning was the word" or Logos and that this was God. It's a Hellenistic concept of God, not the erratic God of the Old Testament and the writers of the NT have chosen to use the vehicle of God's own son coming to slap people around and tell them that God is not undependable and inconsistent.

On the contrary, Jesus tells his flock that everything revolves around one central principle, "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" and that this is the "law and the prophets". By this, he is saying that the whole of the Old Testament destills down into this principle. He then goes on to explain how it applies in different circumstances and despite saying he has not come to abolish the laws but to fulfill them he actually goes on to demolish them. It's a very subtly written part of Matthew and it's worth reading for those who seem to think Christianity has the same "god" as the Old Testament or Judaism.

Whether Christianity as a world view can be coherent, depends on how you read it. I tried, a long while ago to imagine what it is like to "accept the love of Jesus" into my life. I tried to figure out how this would of itself affect any change in me or give me anything back and it was clear to me that this is a form of self-delusion, that by accepting all the mumbo-jumbo about Jesus, you would be given eternal salvation and peace of mind. You might wander around with a smile on your face, thinking you had achieved some kind of Nirvana, but that is a psychological response which passes with time.

I suggest reading Viktor Frankl because it explains to me why Christianity is successful on another level. Frankl tells us to find a purpose in life and that by finding a purpose, generally meaning caring about an "other", such as family, one can overcome depression. His theory is widely viewed as very successful and you'll see why this is in his book "Man's Search for Meaning".

Anyway, the idea that one can find some kind of peace of mind from adopting a lifestyle based on care for others is something which is contained in Christianity, if you want to read it that way. Trying to find peace of mind by following Christianity because a book tells you that you will have eternal life is delusional, irrational and silly.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Deltabravo's post
07-09-2017, 01:19 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
The only possible problem with atheism is that it might give too much credit to the question being asked. Since no two theists can agree on what a "God" is, if they even attempt to define it at all, the question is more properly dismissed as nonsense in my opinion (ignosticism).

Following this, it's a matter of technicality/definition whether I'd still be called an atheist. For ease of reference, I identify as such. I'm not a theist, that's for sure. I can't believe a statement is true when I don't understand what it's even supposed to mean.

Seriously, theists. It is about the most meaningless word in the English language.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Robvalue's post
07-09-2017, 02:50 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(06-09-2017 07:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  On the other hand, how can Christians claim sufficient grounds for logic and induction when they derive their ethics and worldview from the commands of a God, who is anything but dependable and consistent?
..and whom, as the foundation of their whole world view, they cant even remotely demonstrate to exist. Drinking Beverage

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Deesse23's post
07-09-2017, 05:18 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(06-09-2017 08:33 PM)Naielis Wrote:  I am indeed claiming atheists can't ultimately be consistent, however, they can be honest. But my question is getting at what grounds logic and induction in the first place.

Honesty and consistency. Why do you think those are insufficient?

No one is entirely consistent. We are willful beings.

Quote:But, on an atheist worldview, you have no basis on which to believe the universe is consistent or that we can observe or use anything.

Again, atheism is not a worldview. Naturalism/materialism are worldviews, and most atheists support them. I would be interested in how you think naturalism/materialism provide "no basis on which to believe the universe is consistent or that we can observe or use anything." Just the reverse seems true to me.

Quote:In what way is the Christian god not dependable or consistent?

The Christian God is a willful being by definition. If he were entirely consistent and dependable, he wouldn't possess consciousness.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Thoreauvian's post
07-09-2017, 05:21 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(02-08-2017 03:08 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(02-08-2017 02:23 PM)Rachel Wrote:  Who is saying that atheism is irrational and why? The only people I’ve met who feel that are the ones who employ the argument from popularity or the bandwagon argument, that is, “50 Million Elvis Fans Can’t Be Wrong!”

A rejection of evidence-free claims is entirely justified. “Because I say so” only works on children and even then, not for very long.

Here's just one example: http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_irrationality

Have conservatives really gone THAT FAR to make their own fucking wikipedia because it's too liberal. Why is this a thing? Reading through the articles you'd think liberals and atheists were responsible for EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG. Holy hell! Gasp

For those who seek truth, superstition falls just as easy as a house of cards.
[Image: funny-cats-4.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Ixlandis's post
07-09-2017, 05:37 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
It only seems to bother these Naielis types because it apparently is flawed and inconsistent to them because it doesn't connect to proclaiming to having the answers known.

The fear in accepting the unknown as reality is too real apparently.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like ClydeLee's post
07-09-2017, 06:05 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(07-09-2017 05:21 AM)Ixlandis Wrote:  
(02-08-2017 03:08 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Here's just one example: http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_irrationality

Have conservatives really gone THAT FAR to make their own fucking wikipedia because it's too liberal. Why is this a thing? Reading through the articles you'd think liberals and atheists were responsible for EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG. Holy hell! Gasp

Quote:The atheist worldview cannot explain the existence of consciousness either and the theistic worldview can offer a reasonable explanation

#1 its not "reasonable". Its says "magic" Facepalm
#2 they dont care to demonstrate that their explanation ("magic") is real and existing Facepalm Facepalm
#3 Atheism doesnt need to explain anytihng, particularly consciousness Facepalm Facepalm Facepalm

This is so stupid beyond any belief.... Weeping ...no wait...not beyond "conservative" (christian) belief it seems Weeping Weeping


Quote:Atheist mindset
The functional psychology of the atheist worldview is rooted in the character defect of narcissism on one end of the behavioral spectrum to avoidantism on the other
Facepalm Facepalm Facepalm

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Deesse23's post
07-09-2017, 06:18 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
At work.

*Wave*

Hello Naielis! Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: