Atheism is the only rational position to take
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18-09-2017, 09:36 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(17-09-2017 09:13 AM)Naielis Wrote:  The term unbeliever encompasses the term atheist. That means that, if atheists have beliefs, then at least some unbelievers have beliefs. And yet they had said unbelievers didn't have beliefs.

Is this like the Simpsons thing of "I'm not not licking toads" ?

I don't want Fop, goddamn it! I'm a Dapper Dan man!
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18-09-2017, 10:15 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
I would just like to know how the Christian god "grounds" anything, since you first would have to know or believe that the Christian god exists, and that in itself would require some sort of "ground". You either have to establish his/its existence by logical argument (good luck with that, though), which presupposes the validity of logical reasoning, or you would have to accept the claims of the Bible at face value (ha ha ha ha ha), or you would have to have some physical evidence, which would require trusting the evidence of your senses. I don't see how any of this gets off the ground.

In my opinion, we can't be certain about anything (except our own existence), but trusting in the evidence of our senses and in logical reasoning has worked well enough to keep trusting in them. It's not certainty, but it's the best we've got. I fail to see how "the Christian god" improves this situation in any way. If you (Naielis) claim that it does, how about giving us a clue as to how and why it does so (in your own words, not just a link)?
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18-09-2017, 11:03 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(18-09-2017 10:15 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I fail to see how "the Christian god" improves this situation in any way. If you (Naielis) claim that it does, how about giving us a clue as to how and why it does so (in your own words, not just a link)?

Yeah, I'm still puzzled about the assertion that atheists don't have independent grounds for logic and induction, only Christians. Pragmatism should be enough; such methods work. But even historically, weren't they originally developed by the pagan Greeks and not by Christians?
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18-09-2017, 12:44 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
Naielis, if you don't believe in Zeus, Odin or hundreds of other gods throughout the ages, you are an Atheist when it comes to belief in those gods.

Unless you do believe that they all exist.
Do you ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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18-09-2017, 01:20 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
Where did our new friend, Naielis, go? Maybe he or she did a cost/benefit analysis and decided the likelihood of a making a meaningful impact for Jesus here was not in their favor.
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18-09-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(18-09-2017 01:20 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Where did our new friend, Naielis, go? Maybe he or she did a cost/benefit analysis and decided the likelihood of a making a meaningful impact for Jesus here was not in their favor.

If you look through the thread (and the forum in general), you'll notice that he only pops in once in a while, answers a whole bunch of posts, and then disappears again for a while. Maybe he has limited time. I expect he'll be back.
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18-09-2017, 04:18 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(18-09-2017 02:02 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-09-2017 01:20 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Where did our new friend, Naielis, go? Maybe he or she did a cost/benefit analysis and decided the likelihood of a making a meaningful impact for Jesus here was not in their favor.

If you look through the thread (and the forum in general), you'll notice that he only pops in once in a while, answers a whole bunch of posts, and then disappears again for a while. Maybe he has limited time. I expect he'll be back.

Yes I am busy with assignments most of the time. Other times I'm debating on discord. I'm wondering if I should just record an audio clip responding to objections. I think that would be more efficient. But even that won't be made until at least Thursday.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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18-09-2017, 04:26 PM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(18-09-2017 04:18 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(18-09-2017 02:02 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  If you look through the thread (and the forum in general), you'll notice that he only pops in once in a while, answers a whole bunch of posts, and then disappears again for a while. Maybe he has limited time. I expect he'll be back.

Yes I am busy with assignments most of the time. Other times I'm debating on discord. I'm wondering if I should just record an audio clip responding to objections. I think that would be more efficient. But even that won't be made until at least Thursday.

Unless it's something very simple, I strongly prefer a written response to an audio clip. Philosophical arguments often contain subtleties that need to be gone over several times in order to "get it". It's much easier -- at least for me -- to read something several times than to listen to it several times. This is also the reason why I haven't bothered to listen to the youtube debate posted earlier. Things go by much too fast in that format. I'd much rather read something and ponder it (and re-read it if necessary) at my leisure. I can control the pace that way.
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19-09-2017, 02:20 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(18-09-2017 04:18 PM)Naielis Wrote:  Yes I am busy with assignments most of the time. Other times I'm debating on discord. I'm wondering if I should just record an audio clip responding to objections. I think that would be more efficient. But even that won't be made until at least Thursday.

Hey Naielis!

Hope things are going swell for you and yours. Thumbsup
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19-09-2017, 07:46 AM
RE: Atheism is the only rational position to take
(18-09-2017 04:26 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(18-09-2017 04:18 PM)Naielis Wrote:  Yes I am busy with assignments most of the time. Other times I'm debating on discord. I'm wondering if I should just record an audio clip responding to objections. I think that would be more efficient. But even that won't be made until at least Thursday.

Unless it's something very simple, I strongly prefer a written response to an audio clip. Philosophical arguments often contain subtleties that need to be gone over several times in order to "get it". It's much easier -- at least for me -- to read something several times than to listen to it several times. This is also the reason why I haven't bothered to listen to the youtube debate posted earlier. Things go by much too fast in that format. I'd much rather read something and ponder it (and re-read it if necessary) at my leisure. I can control the pace that way.

I just wanted to add that I did try to listen to the youtube debate that Naielis posted earlier, and found it unlistenable. I couldn't get past the first speaker because of the constant audio dropouts and distortions -- very distracting to try and follow an argument when you can't understand half of what he's saying. So I gave up. Sorry.
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