Atheism isn't a group?
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14-08-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Atheism isn't a group?
Hi everybody, I'm new here!

I've been reading somewhat on the forums, and what strikes me as kind of weird, is that in almost all discussions it is claimed that Atheism is not a group and that it has no ideas and so on. Yet many of the people here seem to think to belong to this group, which does not exist, evident in all the complaints about religious people, and ideas on how to promote Atheism.
Also, for people who claim to "just have no belief in God" an awful lot of work goes into discussing why religions are wrong.
Isn't it more logical to call the site "the Thinking Anti-theist" as that's what a lot of the site seems dedicated to.

The behaviour here is extremely similar to the behaviour of religious people, when they are confronted with some negative actions committed by people of "their group", they always claim those people do not really belong to "their group".
If you compare Atheism to Anti-theism, the latter are just the Fundamentalists of Atheism. Even though it perhaps is simply the lack of belief in one or more gods, it does have its own culture, sometimes ideas, heck, even its own site...
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14-08-2011, 12:00 PM
RE: Atheism isn't a group?
Hi and welcome tot he forum, Have an insightful stay.

Hmm...

I kind of disagree...
Although it IS true that most of us put a lot of effort in refuting religion, it is kind of to be expected when you go on a forum especially covering that topic. If you want to hear people talk about why WOW is the best game ever I suggest you don't go to a forum called "Amateur beer-brewers form around the world". Wink
I guess it is nothing more then group-dynamics.

Compare it to this...
What would a forum uniting all non soccer players talk about. Probably a lot of the forum would talk about why they don't feel soccer is interesting to them.

There ARE other treads on the forum though. Look closely. If you think we should discuss other things... Raise a topic!

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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14-08-2011, 12:18 PM (This post was last modified: 14-08-2011 12:21 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: Atheism isn't a group?
See, we never used to be a "group" (whatever that may mean; probably quite different things, more and less important, more and less defined, to different people). We used to be secular thinkers who had either dropped out of some church, transplants from another culture making the adjustment, or who never had any religion to begin with; new, tentative, self-made, native and second- or third-generation atheists, doubters, agnostics, undecideds. We might be conservative or liberal, might belong to any number of ethnic group, benevolent societies, unions, clubs and organizations, love or hate sport, worship or despise celebrities, be involved in or avoid politics.... Any possible variation of opinions and proclivities, having only one thing in common: non-belief in a meddling, rule-making deity.
That's a group in some reckoning - the way blue-eyed people are a group, or New Yorkers are group.

But then the political tide turned toward religious fundamentalism and extremism. We see unreason overtaking state functions: legislation and law-enforcement, education and institutions, elections and media bias. Some of us, recognizing earmarks of the middle ages, have campaigned against this creeping darkness, have stood up in public to counter Jehovah's and Allah's noisome shills. Suddenly, we find our intellectual freedom threatened - soon to be followed by our physical freedom, as has already happened in some countries. Suddenly, we are all targets of persecution.
There is nothing like being tarred (?and feathered) with the same brush to drive disparate people into a single huddle. So, if atheists are "a group", it's for mutual support and protection. Perhaps even more importantly, to provide a haven for young people who are doubting, trying to liberate their minds, striving for autonomy, and finding themselves hemmed in by hellfire-breathing elders.

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14-08-2011, 12:22 PM
 
RE: Atheism isn't a group?
That's exactly what I meant!
To my knowledge, there are no forums simply for people who don't do, or like, something. Nobody feels the need to make a forum about the fact that they don't like strawberries, and this probably doesn't make up a large part of their identity.

But on here, people seem to be as fond of Atheism, as people on religious forums are of their religions. A lot of people here live their Atheism with a religious fervour, it goes far beyond simply not believing in something. Yet it is stated time and again that this is absolutely not the case, if something is said about Atheism, and reactions are extremely defensive. It's exactly like those annoying religious people...
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14-08-2011, 12:28 PM
RE: Atheism isn't a group?
This is a forum not a group. A forum is for people who share common interests to discuss those interests. And so that happens here.

I have no problem with being in a group with most of these people as they come off as fairly nice level headed types, but we aren't in an official group. Reason being, groups tend to have agendas beyond discussion. Since the thing we know most about each other on here happens to be that we are in some way adverse to religion or some of it's practices, that is what we discuss most commonly, but outside of that most of our political or philosophical ideals are more apt to stray.
They do meet up on occasion but not frequent enough for anyone on here to want to get together and hand our name cards. The disagreement I think we are having is more semantics than anything else. My guess is that by group you mean organization, or maybe even team, which would be filled with like minded individuals all out for the same purposes. That would be difficult here as Trainwreck found out once upon a time, because even though we may all have the community powered belief that religion does more harm than good, I'm sure we would split apart on the topic of what to do about it, or if anything should even be done at all.

I don't have any actual problem with being called a group with these fine folks so long as it's understood to be about as organized and political as say a meeting of fellow D&D players. (which I've never actually played before anyone asks)
We enjoy some of the same things, and I like conversing with everyone. That seems nice enough doesn't it? Almost like a better word to describe us would be COMMUNITY.

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14-08-2011, 12:46 PM
RE: Atheism isn't a group?
I'm not sure what it is that you find annoying about us. The difference between this group (sure, call us that if you like. No skin off my ass) and "those annoying religous people" is that we are talking amongst ourselves. Have you ever met any of the members here? Have they knocked on your door imploring you to accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your personal savior? Perhaps they blew up your local convienience store in his name?

.....doubt it.

We discuss atheism. Sure. And atheism, theism, and religion in general warrants discussion because it negatively affects our lives. If it doesn't have that affect on yours, great! We'll leave you alone. No phone calls. No impromptu visits while you're eating dinner with your family. That's right, no annoying you. But if you intentionally come here, read discussions, then feel annoyed, who do you think you should blame for that?

Do I sound defensive? Probably, but I'm ok with that. You see, I think it's about time someone defended this group without apology. I don't make any apologies for defending every persons right to say whats on their mind, theist, atheist, or martian. The people on this forum have chosen to discuss it in an appropriate place. They're not forcing their opinions on anyone. They are talking to others who choose to listen. So what annoys me is people who go out looking to be annoyed, then start complaining about it.

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14-08-2011, 01:12 PM
RE: Atheism isn't a group?
(14-08-2011 12:28 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Almost like a better word to describe us would be COMMUNITY.

Me likey...

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Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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14-08-2011, 01:54 PM
RE: Atheism isn't a group?
I read several blogs on different subjects and visit three other, unrelated fora and i do jigsaw puzzles and play Sea Jewels on line. I suppose each of these sites, since it's visited by many people with the same interest, could be called a group. Not one of the memberships, however, would be jealous or angry to learn that i belonged to the others.
Whereas, if i were to hop from a mosque to a synagogue to a cathedral to a kingdom hall, i'd expect to be looked-at askance.
(I'd also have a splitting headache!)

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14-08-2011, 03:19 PM
RE: Atheism isn't a group?
Actually what I find annoying is new members who berate the forum and the people in it while spending zero time actually reading posts or getting to know the members. Your 'criticisms' are so laughably off base that's it's fairly obvious you never spent anytime on this particular forum.

Perhaps next you could go to a My Little Pony forum and berate them for talking about My Little Pony instead of talking about Strawberry Shortcake.

Don't you have better things to do then to go around to random atheist forums and tell everyone what's wrong with the place?

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14-08-2011, 03:34 PM
RE: Atheism isn't a group?
(14-08-2011 11:38 AM)Biologist Wrote:  Hi everybody, I'm new here!

Hi I joined this forum for various reasons:
  • I wanted to vent my anger at religion (hence teh nickname).
  • I wanted to test to hold intelligent conversations that test my ideas. Theists would be ideal so you are welcome partake in the forum.
  • I wanted to work off my anger into more constructuve directions so that I actually get to hold intelligent conversations.
Other people will have different reasons.
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