Atheism - the definition
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19-07-2012, 04:13 AM
Atheism - the definition
Hi folks. As a long-time former reprobate in the newsgroup alt.atheism, a clear definition of what atheism means became established. I recreated that definition more recently (after a long absence from atheist newsgroups/forums) as I was basically sick of hearing atheism being badly attributed to (non-)thoughts that didn't belong to it.

Here's what I wrote: atheism.

As I've now re-joined a place for atheist discussion, I'm curious to see what feedback I get. Will I be taken out back and hit like a piñata... or will you generally agree with me?
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19-07-2012, 04:20 AM
RE: Atheism - the definition
I think you may be the only person that uses (or has used) newsgoups on this forum. Beside me, that is. Smile

You definition is pretty simple and well known, I thought it's gonna be something new.

If you look at the definition in Wikipedia:

Quote:Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

it is pretty much the same thing, you have only shorten it.

So yeah, I agree with you.

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19-07-2012, 04:36 AM
RE: Atheism - the definition
(19-07-2012 04:20 AM)Filox Wrote:  You definition is pretty simple and well known, I thought it's gonna be something new.
I was aiming for accuracy, not novelty. Dodgy

The potentially contentious issue concerns existent things being claimed as gods (volcanoes, the sun or your toaster) as the bog-standard throwaway claim of (strong) atheism; the belief that gods don't exist - needs to be re-evaluated, as it isn't true. Which is why I used the phrase "personal gods" (meaning gods with which you have a personal relationship). So, your god exists, but that god isn't a personal god. The more traditional religions remain the same, as non-existent gods (e.g. Yahweh) remain non-existent, whether they are at the "god" level or the "personal god" level.

Yahweh doesn't exist, but volcanoes do.

That wasn't covered by Wikipedia.

Smile
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19-07-2012, 04:42 AM
RE: Atheism - the definition
Oh, you are a new philosopher then? OK, now we're good.

Big Grin

Now it all comes back to you personal perception. If I consider my laptop to be my God, you can't say that my personal God does not exist, since I am holding it in my hands. But is it God or not? Not for you, but it can be for me. Does that make me crazy? Sure it does, but it is still my God and it is real and it is my personal God.

Sorry about this, but I have nothing else to do, so I will be BSing here with you a bit, if you don't mind...

Big Grin

P.S.

Wait until you meet houseofcantor and his personal God, his Gwynies...

Smile

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19-07-2012, 04:53 AM
RE: Atheism - the definition
(19-07-2012 04:42 AM)Filox Wrote:  Now it all comes back to you personal perception. If I consider my laptop to be my God, you can't say that my personal God does not exist, since I am holding it in my hands. But is it God or not? Not for you, but it can be for me. Does that make me crazy? Sure it does, but it is still my God and it is real and it is my personal God.

Heh. Well, now, BS aside, you can pray to your laptop as much as you like... it won't know about it as it isn't conscious and it can't understand your prayers, let alone fulfil them. Ergo, it isn't a personal god (remember the definition I provided for "personal god").

You could claim a person* as your god, who could understand your prayers (and might even fulfil some of them), but that's rather stretching the definition ascribed within theism... so, in that context, atheism would need another (better established) definition. But fuck that. Life is finite, and it shouldn't be altogether taken up with dealing with crazy people.


* as a head-nod to George Carlin, I have to mention Joe Pesci
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19-07-2012, 05:03 AM
RE: Atheism - the definition
You really think that my laptop has no conscious? You heathen bastard!! Heretic!!


Sorry, but I do not see the big difference between "God" and a "personal God". While your definition is accurate, "A God", "a deity", or a "personal God" all points in the same direction, a supreme conscious that created Universe and us. Being "an atheist", we do not believe that such a thing exists. Quite simple really. So your explanations are good and valid, but I don't see them as ground-breaking, or revolutionising, just as a different semantics of an old definition.

There, you see, I can be serious as well.

Tongue

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19-07-2012, 06:22 AM
RE: Atheism - the definition
(19-07-2012 04:13 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  Will I be taken out back and hit like a piñata...

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My research indicates that we are born theists. Where mother is the wordless conception of god, where socialization and education are the wording of the flesh from primate to human; after which rational skepticism requires the I that am to recreate the past in my own image. Like god.

So, no.

Atheist means I don't believe in your god, cause that's how I use it. Really can't define no other atheist. Atheism is a set of which I'm a member. Prophet and all. So, no.

Welcome to the forum.

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19-07-2012, 06:27 AM
RE: Atheism - the definition
'cantor understands it is only a matter of perception, no matter what camp you're in.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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19-07-2012, 06:29 AM
RE: Atheism - the definition
(19-07-2012 06:22 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  My research indicates that we are born theists. Where mother is the wordless conception of god, where socialization and education are the wording of the flesh from primate to human; after which rational skepticism requires the I that am to recreate the past in my own image. Like god.
Wow. A mother-as-god believer. I have a need to poke you with a stick, like a kid let loose in Jurassic Park.

Let's agree to disagree on that one, then (in a big way).

And thanks for the welcome. Smile
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19-07-2012, 06:41 AM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2012 06:44 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Atheism - the definition
(19-07-2012 06:27 AM)Observer Wrote:  'cantor understands it is only a matter of perception, no matter what camp you're in.
That Evil is the Absolutely Contrary position. Evil_monster


(19-07-2012 06:29 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  A mother-as-god believer.

My "spiritual father" is Georg Cantor, my "spiritual mother" is Gwyneth Paltrow; and there's a little Oedipus in all of us. Big Grin

That's the problem, the monomyth. Thumbsup

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