Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
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12-11-2012, 03:01 PM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(12-11-2012 12:02 PM)Humakt Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 06:55 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I agree.
He is quite intelligent and you will note that he understands the issue and agrees with me.
Regards
DL
He's said you make an interesting point, he's also said that he doesn't agree with you. Although, he's the person who has come closest to it. I hope I do not put words in your mouth DLT.

Actually, you do. So maybe I should correct that impression.

I'm not even close to the OP's position. But I do understand it.

Of the morality principles, highlighted by Jonathan Haidt, as discussed earlier in this thread (care/passion; liberty; reciprocity/fairness; in-group loyalty; authority; purity/sanctity), I do not hold with the last three. Which according to Haidt's research makes me a liberal (although I don't like that label. I prefer Libertine!).

I have a twisted sense of loyalty, so that's a tricky one... I'm loyal in a relationship and I am loyal to friends (often misplaced) but I am so out-group that I'm not even a member of my own family (dissociative behaviour).

If I was ok with the last three moralities, I could easily see the benefits of an atheist 'church' / union / party / club.

It would offer protection to the weak and disenfranchised. It could do the bonding-thing that tbh, churches are pretty good at.

While I'm on a roll, here are the chapter headings from Alain de Botton's 'Religion for Atheists':
Wisdom without Doctrine
Community
Kindness
Tenderness
Pessimism
Perspective
Art
Architecture
Institutions.

I think the churches are good at these things. Some (e.g. C of E) don't even push their doctrine anymore (much).

So I get what this is about. I do.

If I thought there was no other way, well maybe I would give in to the idea of an atheist church but it would completely go against what I said earlier in post #67 (which seems like a long time ago).


Also, DLT? Really? What am I, a hairy, ex Radio1 DJ? I'm hurt Weeping

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12-11-2012, 03:16 PM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(12-11-2012 11:02 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Then by all means, do nothing to further it.
Regards
DL
False dichotomy.

There are many other choices, nearly all of which are better than yours.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-11-2012, 04:25 PM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(12-11-2012 03:01 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Also, DLT? Really? What am I, a hairy, ex Radio1 DJ? I'm hurt Weeping
What? Dairy, Lettuce and Tomato sandwich! What were you thinking?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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13-11-2012, 04:03 AM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(12-11-2012 03:01 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 12:02 PM)Humakt Wrote:  He's said you make an interesting point, he's also said that he doesn't agree with you. Although, he's the person who has come closest to it. I hope I do not put words in your mouth DLT.

Actually, you do. So maybe I should correct that impression.

I'm not even close to the OP's position. But I do understand it.

Of the morality principles, highlighted by Jonathan Haidt, as discussed earlier in this thread (care/passion; liberty; reciprocity/fairness; in-group loyalty; authority; purity/sanctity), I do not hold with the last three. Which according to Haidt's research makes me a liberal (although I don't like that label. I prefer Libertine!).

I have a twisted sense of loyalty, so that's a tricky one... I'm loyal in a relationship and I am loyal to friends (often misplaced) but I am so out-group that I'm not even a member of my own family (dissociative behaviour).

If I was ok with the last three moralities, I could easily see the benefits of an atheist 'church' / union / party / club.

It would offer protection to the weak and disenfranchised. It could do the bonding-thing that tbh, churches are pretty good at.

While I'm on a roll, here are the chapter headings from Alain de Botton's 'Religion for Atheists':
Wisdom without Doctrine
Community
Kindness
Tenderness
Pessimism
Perspective
Art
Architecture
Institutions.

I think the churches are good at these things. Some (e.g. C of E) don't even push their doctrine anymore (much).

So I get what this is about. I do.

If I thought there was no other way, well maybe I would give in to the idea of an atheist church but it would completely go against what I said earlier in post #67 (which seems like a long time ago).


Also, DLT? Really? What am I, a hairy, ex Radio1 DJ? I'm hurt Weeping
First off sorry for the hairy cornflake mistype/brain fart on my part. Secondly, I'm happy you weighed into clarify, I did say I didnt want to put words in your mouth and the phrase closest to, was pretty much laziness on my part.

As to the DeBotton, Ive seen the podcast, never occurred to me that it was also a book, I'll have to look it out. I'm a big fan of his, although Ive never read him. So thanks for that.

I guess maybe in america, and possibly france if I is any judge, there might be some need for an active orginisation of atheism, here in Britain at least in my experience its just not needed, religion or your lack of it is a private matter and the vast majority of people could not care less. In fact, if a "church" of atheism did get going I have no doubt it would be treated with derision and scorn

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13-11-2012, 08:24 AM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
I'm starting a new club. Our purpose is to not collect stamps. Who's in?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-11-2012, 08:32 AM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(13-11-2012 08:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'm starting a new club. Our purpose is to not collect stamps. Who's in?
Dammit I hate you guys!

With your non-albums and your non-first-day-covers and non-doctrine of non-values of non-stamps.

Always so damn negative.

My non-god is way better than your non-god.

Angry

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13-11-2012, 08:47 AM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(13-11-2012 08:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'm starting a new club. Our purpose is to not collect stamps. Who's in?

I'm in. We must do this or the stamp collectors will gang up on us. After all, only < 5% of the people of the world don't collect stamps. We must teach our kids not to collect stamps. Stamp it out. That way we will be permanently free of philately.
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13-11-2012, 09:24 AM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(13-11-2012 08:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-11-2012 08:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'm starting a new club. Our purpose is to not collect stamps. Who's in?

I'm in. We must do this or the stamp collectors will gang up on us. After all, only < 5% of the people of the world don't collect stamps. We must teach our kids not to collect stamps. Stamp it out. That way we will be permanently free of philately.



I detect philatephobia

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13-11-2012, 09:32 AM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(13-11-2012 09:24 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-11-2012 08:47 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'm in. We must do this or the stamp collectors will gang up on us. After all, only < 5% of the people of the world don't collect stamps. We must teach our kids not to collect stamps. Stamp it out. That way we will be permanently free of philately.



I detect philatephobia



Of course, because your a phobiaphile.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-11-2012, 02:31 PM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(13-11-2012 09:24 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I detect philatephobia


It's *not* phobia. I am just stating my beliefs. In fact by calling me a bigoted philatophobe you're showing your own insecurity. Philately is *wrong*. I er... don't have a reference for that statement. Just read Gibbons and you can see for yourself how evil it is.
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