Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
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10-11-2012, 03:12 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2012 03:17 PM by ClydeLee.)
Re: RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(10-11-2012 02:30 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 12:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your questions make no sense. Atheism comprises diverse people. I place no value on sanctifying atheism.
It makes much sense if you put your numbers down and you had to add sanctifying to my question for you to justify your running from it.
Regards loser.
DL

You're acting ridiculous. Do you understand that You are asking how you judge how a person thinks based on knowing 1 thing about them.

You seem to ignore that there are millions of atheists with different perspectives and dozens of reasons that they are atheist.

For example, A person who never was taught or concluded a deity concept is an atheist.. How an I supposed to value his thinking process.

Chas was able to clearly state the falseness of the question unlike I, but you think it's a dodge because you want to quantify things into boxes.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-11-2012, 03:15 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2012 03:35 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
Ok, so now I think I understand your claim as to why atheists should be united into a church-like format.

It still makes absolutely no sense.

Atheism is not dying. Are you familiar with the concept of tabula rasa? There is no such thing as a "Christian" or "Muslim" or any type of "insert religion here" baby. They don't have the cognitive capacity to even be aware of such constructs. Fanatical religion is passed on through the parents who dictate their offsprings's exposure to reality. The only real direct threat to free thinking and rational thought is self-blinding, self-serving intolerance. Even then, we have the rationality and intelligence to effectively combat such vitriolic illogic and distortions of reality. Your everyday liberal folk who only consider themselves as loosely religious provide little threat to atheism. They aren't going to indoctrinate their children into a destructive thought cycle, they will impart their offspring with their ideas and then let them make their own choices. Some will become moderately religious themselves, others will decide that religion in any form just isn't their gig, and some will become fundamentalists. What's the big deal? Live and let live is a growing mentality in a universal spectrum. Just because we haven't eliminated the darker side of humanity which favors self-serving delusions and oppression, realities that have been with us since the beginning, doesn't mean atheism and free thinking are facing a dire threat of extinction. Atheism, if anything, is GROWING, as individuals' rights to freedom of conscience has expanded over the past several centuries.

Would you like to know what would be a huge threat to atheists? If they collected into a sheep-like mass, established themselves as a dogmatic institution, and proceeded to corrode the integrity of their own values. I'm not sure whether or not you are implying that external variables are what threaten atheists, but what I do know is that your proposed solution will lead to internal destruction.

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10-11-2012, 04:08 PM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
[Image: eb6.jpg?1307463786]

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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10-11-2012, 06:34 PM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(10-11-2012 04:08 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  [Image: eb6.jpg?1307463786]
Neither trolling or stupid.

These are genuine views held by many atheists.

Do you recall PZ Meyers attempt to categorise atheists? I can't remember the labels he applied so I will just use the word 'activist'.

These ideas appeal to the 'activists'; the ones who think that sitting around just talking about atheism is not getting us to their goal quick enough.

Greatest,
The way I see it, although I can admire your passion, there are other approaches that are already being effective e.g. Seth's podcasts. Ok, it's slow but there is momentum.

Ironically we have a 'demonising' issue here <--- just to prove that I watched the vids you posted.

I may be the only one but I appreciate your input.

Thanks.

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10-11-2012, 09:11 PM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(10-11-2012 09:54 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  We have all that now for many years and atheists are a measly 5% of the population.
Where? Drinking Beverage

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10-11-2012, 10:59 PM
Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(10-11-2012 06:34 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 04:08 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  [Image: eb6.jpg?1307463786]
Neither trolling or stupid.

These are genuine views held by many atheists.

Do you recall PZ Meyers attempt to categorise atheists? I can't remember the labels he applied so I will just use the word 'activist'.

These ideas appeal to the 'activists'; the ones who think that sitting around just talking about atheism is not getting us to their goal quick enough.

Greatest,
The way I see it, although I can admire your passion, there are other approaches that are already being effective e.g. Seth's podcasts. Ok, it's slow but there is momentum.

Ironically we have a 'demonising' issue here <--- just to prove that I watched the vids you posted.

I may be the only one but I appreciate your input.

Thanks.

What goals?

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10-11-2012, 11:21 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2012 11:26 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(10-11-2012 10:59 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 06:34 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Neither trolling or stupid.

These are genuine views held by many atheists.

Do you recall PZ Meyers attempt to categorise atheists? I can't remember the labels he applied so I will just use the word 'activist'.

These ideas appeal to the 'activists'; the ones who think that sitting around just talking about atheism is not getting us to their goal quick enough.

Greatest,
The way I see it, although I can admire your passion, there are other approaches that are already being effective e.g. Seth's podcasts. Ok, it's slow but there is momentum.

Ironically we have a 'demonising' issue here <--- just to prove that I watched the vids you posted.

I may be the only one but I appreciate your input.

Thanks.

What goals?


Well, of course, activists do not all agree (<-- although, they probably do agree with that statement) but for argument's sake, let's go for ... DEATH to ALL RELIGIONS! Ra ra ra.

Setting up a "church" in opposition is seen as a way of fighting fire with fire.

Most atheists, of course, see this as defeating the object of being an adeist/atheist i.e. not having a god and therefore no formal worship of that non-god.

It goes to heart of the theist/secular battle:

Is the public sphere a market-place of conflicting ideas and ideals where the strongest will survive?
Or is it a neutral space, free of ideals, where all ideas are equal (or at least, treated equally until proved untrue / undesirable)?

The religiously minded tend to see it as the former, hence an atheist church would compete, win (maybe) and protect its membership.

I go with the latter, so I cannot agree with the OP despite its noble intent.

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11-11-2012, 09:14 AM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(10-11-2012 03:15 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Ok, so now I think I understand your claim as to why atheists should be united into a church-like format.

It still makes absolutely no sense.

Atheism is not dying. Are you familiar with the concept of tabula rasa? There is no such thing as a "Christian" or "Muslim" or any type of "insert religion here" baby. They don't have the cognitive capacity to even be aware of such constructs. Fanatical religion is passed on through the parents who dictate their offsprings's exposure to reality. The only real direct threat to free thinking and rational thought is self-blinding, self-serving intolerance. Even then, we have the rationality and intelligence to effectively combat such vitriolic illogic and distortions of reality. Your everyday liberal folk who only consider themselves as loosely religious provide little threat to atheism. They aren't going to indoctrinate their children into a destructive thought cycle, they will impart their offspring with their ideas and then let them make their own choices. Some will become moderately religious themselves, others will decide that religion in any form just isn't their gig, and some will become fundamentalists. What's the big deal? Live and let live is a growing mentality in a universal spectrum. Just because we haven't eliminated the darker side of humanity which favors self-serving delusions and oppression, realities that have been with us since the beginning, doesn't mean atheism and free thinking are facing a dire threat of extinction. Atheism, if anything, is GROWING, as individuals' rights to freedom of conscience has expanded over the past several centuries.

Would you like to know what would be a huge threat to atheists? If they collected into a sheep-like mass, established themselves as a dogmatic institution, and proceeded to corrode the integrity of their own values. I'm not sure whether or not you are implying that external variables are what threaten atheists, but what I do know is that your proposed solution will lead to internal destruction.
Seems other atheists do not share your fears and do recognize their hivish instincts.
Being a loner I have never had much of it but I do recognize that it is strong in some. That is likely why believers can con themselves into believing garbage.
I hope a church like atheist group is not required but the evidence is against it.
Regards
DL
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11-11-2012, 09:22 AM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
(10-11-2012 06:34 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 04:08 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  [Image: eb6.jpg?1307463786]
Neither trolling or stupid.

These are genuine views held by many atheists.

Do you recall PZ Meyers attempt to categorise atheists? I can't remember the labels he applied so I will just use the word 'activist'.

These ideas appeal to the 'activists'; the ones who think that sitting around just talking about atheism is not getting us to their goal quick enough.

Greatest,
The way I see it, although I can admire your passion, there are other approaches that are already being effective e.g. Seth's podcasts. Ok, it's slow but there is momentum.

Ironically we have a 'demonising' issue here <--- just to prove that I watched the vids you posted.

I may be the only one but I appreciate your input.

Thanks.
No problem my friend.
Other atheists also seem to know about the benefits that atheist churches do in creating positives for the community. What I find disheartening is the lack of forethought and concern for the up and coming generations that atheists are ignoring. I can appreciate where thinkers like us are more independent but to forget our moral obligation to them is taking self-centeredness too far IMO.
I find that strange as atheists tend to have better morals in many cases than the religious.
http://www.churchoffreethought.org/
Regards
DL
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11-11-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: Atheist Church of the evolving Human God.
There are already FSM churches, do we really need more? How about instead of building 'atheist churches' we focus on building more secular humanist centers? Many of the same goals would be accomplished, and you would have fewer people angry over whether it should be called a church or not.

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