Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
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30-09-2014, 03:17 PM
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
From the link Beans posted. Seems to be the only thing needed here:

Quote:My work is often perceived (I believe unfairly) as unpleasantly critical, angry, divisive, etc. The work of other vocal atheists (male and female) has a similar reputation. I believe that in general, men are more attracted to this style of communication than women are. Which is not to say there aren’t millions of acerbic women out there. But just as we can say that men are generally taller than women, without denying that some women are taller than most men, there are psychological differences between men and women which, considered in the aggregate, might explain why “angry atheism” attracts more of the former. Some of these differences are innate; some are surely the product of culture. Nothing in my remarks was meant to suggest that women can’t think as critically as men...
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30-09-2014, 05:20 PM
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
(30-09-2014 11:27 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  At first I was like, "blahh so much text, and a terrible title, there is no way I'm going to read this." But I did read it and I did enjoy your "rant."

I agree that nitpicking can be detrimental at times when a bigger (or just completely different) issue is at hand. And I can relate to the fear of raising a dissenting opinion because of the backlash personally and/or professionally.

I don't like the title "thought leader." I usually refer to those people as "famous atheists" sometimes with an extra, "who seems like a pretty smart man/woman."

Nice post Thumbsup

I wanted to put something more akin to "the more public faces of the atheist movement" but there are character limitations in the Title field. Retrospectively I should have put "thought leaders" in air quotes...
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30-09-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
(30-09-2014 11:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(30-09-2014 11:28 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  Sam wrote a blog post that explain his comments in a little more depth:

I'm Not the Sexist Pig You're Looking For

Sam Harris wrote:
Quote: “Listen, honey. I go to strip clubs every week. I love women—especially when they’re covered in oil.”

Bastard!

Angel

OK, real or not that made me laugh.
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30-09-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
(30-09-2014 03:17 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  From the link Beans posted. Seems to be the only thing needed here:

Quote:My work is often perceived (I believe unfairly) as unpleasantly critical, angry, divisive, etc. The work of other vocal atheists (male and female) has a similar reputation. I believe that in general, men are more attracted to this style of communication than women are. Which is not to say there aren’t millions of acerbic women out there. But just as we can say that men are generally taller than women, without denying that some women are taller than most men, there are psychological differences between men and women which, considered in the aggregate, might explain why “angry atheism” attracts more of the former. Some of these differences are innate; some are surely the product of culture. Nothing in my remarks was meant to suggest that women can’t think as critically as men...

Well said - see that's why he does what he does while I rant as if I was permanently set on "/vvv" - I never learned to be concise.

Oh my many flaws...
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30-09-2014, 06:44 PM
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
We gotz leaders? Blink

Another memo I missed.

How can we be led when we are more like this:

[Image: herding-cats-o.gif]

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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01-10-2014, 01:35 AM
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
(30-09-2014 11:43 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  ^^ lol
That's like saying..."I'm not a sexist, I just make sexist comments."

Very intelligent men find clever ways of saying sexist remarks that don't appear glaringly sexist because their audience admires their brilliance in other matters.

Aristotle comes to mind. He was a brilliant man but a sexist and advocated slavery. I think as a culture, we are often dazzled by intellect over character.

Off the beaten path a bit but .... Angel

Yabut Aristotle lived more than 2000 years ago, when slavery and sexism was the norm. It has nothing to do with the man's character.

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
-Guybrush Threepwood-
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01-10-2014, 06:40 AM
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
(01-10-2014 01:35 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(30-09-2014 11:43 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  ^^ lol
That's like saying..."I'm not a sexist, I just make sexist comments."

Very intelligent men find clever ways of saying sexist remarks that don't appear glaringly sexist because their audience admires their brilliance in other matters.

Aristotle comes to mind. He was a brilliant man but a sexist and advocated slavery. I think as a culture, we are often dazzled by intellect over character.

Off the beaten path a bit but .... Angel

Yabut Aristotle lived more than 2000 years ago, when slavery and sexism was the norm. It has nothing to do with the man's character.

Considering that sexism, racism and bigotry are still quite prevalent today, globally...despite all of the cultural/legal/civil rights advances many societies have made, I stand by that it is a character issue.

Why don't we give a pass to the "prophets" of the Bible then who exhibited these views as well? We could easily say too that they were "products of their times."

People are not victims of their mindsets, they choose them. Regardless of what is going on around them. That is why we see change ...because not everyone is willing to follow the herd.
Just my view.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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01-10-2014, 07:46 AM
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
(01-10-2014 06:40 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  
(01-10-2014 01:35 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Yabut Aristotle lived more than 2000 years ago, when slavery and sexism was the norm. It has nothing to do with the man's character.

Considering that sexism, racism and bigotry are still quite prevalent today, globally...despite all of the cultural/legal/civil rights advances many societies have made, I stand by that it is a character issue.

Why don't we give a pass to the "prophets" of the Bible then who exhibited these views as well? We could easily say too that they were "products of their times."

People are not victims of their mindsets, they choose them. Regardless of what is going on around them. That is why we see change ...because not everyone is willing to follow the herd.
Just my view.

We do say the Bible and the prophets were products of their time.

We don't give them a pass because they're supposed to be agents of God. The barbarism of the scriptures is wrong but understandable from a historical context. We can, however, say that a perfectly moral superbeing who is not subject to time should have known better.

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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01-10-2014, 07:52 AM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2014 08:03 AM by Deidre32.)
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
So only those who are moral "super beings" are not sexist and racist?

Ok. Lol

If it's all about being a product of the time why does sexism and racism still exist today?

Be true to yourself. Heart
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01-10-2014, 08:13 AM
RE: Atheist Infighting - Or Why I Think Our Thought Leaders Set Horrible Examples
Sexism and racism [probably] weren't considered immoral behavior back then, in certain places at least. Morality isn't absolute, after-all.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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