Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
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20-05-2015, 11:02 AM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 10:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 09:21 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  In my view, theists and atheists often pull out the same card here. When a pastor or some university professor later becomes an atheist or a theist, it's sort of like if one were to catch a big fish, and gloat about it. Not only that, but each side tends to disparage the other's catch, as being an insignificant fish, as being sickly and ill fishes, and smugly considering themselves as the big catch, no one has ever been able to reel-in.

There's probably some truth to this, though not in relationship to whose penis is bigger. There does seem to be certain types of atheists and believers who are likely more prone to switching sides, than others who would be quite unlikely to ever switch sides. They are likely to see the former atheism or theism of these converts to be of little affinity to their own sense of disbelief or belief.

I don't particularly find former theists, whose former theism is even remotely relatable. I don't find people like myself ever becoming atheists. Which I'm sure is true even for many atheists here, that they never really find any atheist such as themselves ever becoming theist. And I think there's some truth to this, for both of us, though it doesn't particularly mean that any of us are better theists of atheists than those who recanted.

Here at TTA, It would appear to me that it is not a unilateral tactic, as I see more theists putting great emphasis on atheist to theist conversions and theist scientists. Most atheists do not feel the need to point out every theist turned atheist since it is not that special kind of an event. Theists need the ongoing validation of beliefs, which is what pointing to each individual conversion satisfies for them.

I also find it typical, and sad, that theists like yourself will flat out profess that you can never change your view and become atheist, or even agnostic towards a god. You will find numerous atheist here that will honestly say the their minds are open, and can change with evidence. Not the case with you. You have this belief in your one particular god, out of the other thousands of invented deities, that you think is correct and no evidence can discredit. That is sad, and is even more sad that leaders of countries share your limited views of reality.
yes, and you gave rise to another criticism of this story the op posted. She keeps talking about "building defenses". Ridiculous. Atheism doesn't require such conscious upkeep.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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20-05-2015, 11:02 AM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 10:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Most atheists do not feel the need to point out every theist turned atheist since it is not that special kind of an event.

According to the Pew stats, this could also be due to so many apostates every year outpacing the new baptized. No one could keep up.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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20-05-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 10:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I also find it typical, and sad, that theists like yourself will flat out profess that you can never change your view and become atheist, or even agnostic towards a god. You will find numerous atheist here that will honestly say the their minds are open, and can change with evidence. Not the case with you. You have this belief in your one particular god, out of the other thousands of invented deities, that you think is correct and no evidence can discredit. That is sad, and is even more sad that leaders of countries share your limited views of reality.

Of course I didn't say any of this, though you assumed this is what I was implying. That I've stuck my fingers in my ears, refusing to ever foster questions of disbelief.

Your mind maybe just as open as you think it is, yet you may acknowledge that it's quite unlikely that you would ever become a theists, not because your closed to the idea of it, but that your familiarity with various theistic arguments, and your perceptions that there's likely to be nothing new under the sun, would perhaps lead you to recognize that it's quite unlikely that you'd ever become a theist.

Just like I can recognize that it's quite unlikely that someone like Dawkins, and individuals like him are likely to never become theist, unlike lets say S.E Cupp, were hardly anyone would be surprised if she one day found God.

I doubt you find any of accounts of atheists who converted to theism, and think wow they were just like me, and then one day they found God. You perhaps cringe at their former atheism.
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20-05-2015, 11:16 AM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 11:02 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 10:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Most atheists do not feel the need to point out every theist turned atheist since it is not that special kind of an event.

According to the Pew stats, this could also be due to so many apostates every year outpacing the new baptized. No one could keep up.

True, just let the stats speak for themselves.Smile

It also appears to have so much to do with it being on a personal level all of the time with beliefs. I get it all the time - "hey read this account of this atheist who found christ" - so now are you convinced? That is such a big difference that I see in what is important and of highest priority - personal accounts and relationships. Non-believers do not give priority to one person's experience or account, we find truth in a community of diverse ideas, and the experts among the group, with the best explanation prevailing.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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20-05-2015, 11:27 AM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 11:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 10:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I also find it typical, and sad, that theists like yourself will flat out profess that you can never change your view and become atheist, or even agnostic towards a god. You will find numerous atheist here that will honestly say the their minds are open, and can change with evidence. Not the case with you. You have this belief in your one particular god, out of the other thousands of invented deities, that you think is correct and no evidence can discredit. That is sad, and is even more sad that leaders of countries share your limited views of reality.

Of course I didn't say any of this, though you assumed this is what I was implying. That I've stuck my fingers in my ears, refusing to ever foster questions of disbelief.

Your mind maybe just as open as you think it is, yet you may acknowledge that it's quite unlikely that you would ever become a theists, not because your closed to the idea of it, but that your familiarity with various theistic arguments, and your perceptions that there's likely to be nothing new under the sun, would perhaps lead you to recognize that it's quite unlikely that you'd ever become a theist.

Just like I can recognize that it's quite unlikely that someone like Dawkins, and individuals like him are likely to never become theist, unlike lets say S.E Cupp, were hardly anyone would be surprised if she one day found God.

I doubt you find any of accounts of atheists who converted to theism, and think wow they were just like me, and then one day they found God. You perhaps cringe at their former atheism.

Fair enough, but I do admit I would be forced to believe if evidence of god or his actions were clearly presented and shown to be the best explanation. Until you find a circumstance where supernatural trumps science, I will retain my sad view of theists and their arguments as the close-minded and dishonest side of the fence. What if I said I will never likely stop believing in Thor as my god - would you find that statement ridiculous? Closed-minded?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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20-05-2015, 11:43 AM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 11:27 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Fair enough, but I do admit I would be forced to believe if evidence of god or his actions were clearly presented and shown to be the best explanation.

Well, we could all say the same thing. That I would be forced to no longer believe in God If materialism was shown to be the best explanation, that morality is in fact an illusion, or life is all sound and fury signifying nothing.

Quote:I will retain my sad view of theists and their arguments as the close-minded and dishonest side of the fence.

What is my mind closed to here?

Quote:What if I said I will never likely stop believing in Thor as my god - would you find that statement ridiculous? Closed-minded?

I don't know, I'd probably wonder what they mean by that, since I'm not familiar with Thor believers. Does it mean that they refuse to consider questions that negate this belief? That close their ears, and shut their eyes when it comes to folks who declare there is no Thor? If so perhaps.
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20-05-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 10:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Most atheists do not feel the need to point out every theist turned atheist since it is not that special kind of an event.

I don't see a reason to believe that most theists point out every atheist turned christian either. Nor do I see any reason to believe that theists do this more often than atheists. And I think the parties suggesting they do, just suffer from a bit of selection bias.

I did a google search to see how many hits I get for this "Holly Ordway" lady, I got about 20,000 hits

Where else, the pastor turned atheist, Ryan Bell, 10x as many hits, about 210,000.

That's not even accounting for the fact, that there's exceedingly more theists in the world, than atheists.
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20-05-2015, 11:54 AM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 10:15 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I think she's got a degree in literature, so religious discussion might come up more -- classical literature. But even in classes where that kind of topic is discussed, I've never had a professor behave that way.

But in the passage I quoted, she wasn't discussing literature calsses she'd taught, but rather, science classes she'd attended ... hence my disbelief.
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20-05-2015, 12:03 PM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 11:51 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 10:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Most atheists do not feel the need to point out every theist turned atheist since it is not that special kind of an event.

I don't see a reason to believe that most theists point out every atheist turned christian either. Nor do I see any reason to believe that theists do this more often than atheists. And I think the parties suggesting they do, just suffer from a bit of selection bias.

I did a google search to see how many hits I get for this "Holly Ordway" lady, I got about 20,000 hits

Where else, the pastor turned atheist, Ryan Bell, 10x as many hits, about 210,000.

That's not even accounting for the fact, that there's exceedingly more theists in the world, than atheists.

And this only means that people have the same name. wonderful.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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20-05-2015, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 20-05-2015 12:10 PM by Timber1025.)
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 11:51 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 10:53 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Most atheists do not feel the need to point out every theist turned atheist since it is not that special kind of an event.

I don't see a reason to believe that most theists point out every atheist turned christian either. Nor do I see any reason to believe that theists do this more often than atheists. And I think the parties suggesting they do, just suffer from a bit of selection bias.

I did a google search to see how many hits I get for this "Holly Ordway" lady, I got about 20,000 hits

Where else, the pastor turned atheist, Ryan Bell, 10x as many hits, about 210,000.

That's not even accounting for the fact, that there's exceedingly more theists in the world, than atheists.

Nice dishonest cherry picking of two stories that mean absolutely nothing. Internet hits means NOTHING you weasel. Everything is just selection bias with you when you do not want to concede reality. The instances of theists referencing conversions in debates far exceeds atheists referencing deconversions in my neck of the woods. You know this is true - just showing the frequency and relevance of this tactic for theists (and is justifiable for the sake of argument).

Not to mention you just did exactly what I said theists like to do - use one example as proof of their point of view.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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