Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
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20-05-2015, 12:24 PM (This post was last modified: 20-05-2015 12:32 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 12:06 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Nice dishonest cherry picking of two stories that mean absolutely nothing. Internet hits means NOTHING you weasel. ....
You know this is true - just showing the frequency and relevance of this tactic for theists (and is justifiable for the sake of argument).

No, I don't know this is true, little prick. Hence why I said it.

Internet hits at least gauge some degree of frequency or popularity. If some chick pulls up only about 20,000 hits, it would appear that hardly anyone seems to give a shit about her. This doesn't particularly prove anything. But for us folks with limited resources to gauge whether theists or atheists post conversion/deconversion stories with more frequency it seem to be the most readily available place to start. A means of obtaining a very rough idea.

Quote:The instances of theists referencing conversions in debates far exceeds atheists referencing deconversions in my neck of the woods. You know this is true - just showing the frequency and relevance of this tactic for theists (and is justifiable for the sake of argument).

Yea, maybe in your neck of the woods, wherever that is, not in mine. If you want me to believe otherwise, than prove it.
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20-05-2015, 12:29 PM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 09:21 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 08:26 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That one many of the atheist skeptical communities weren't that in favor of because it was sensational. Guys like Russell Glasser of the Atheist Experience and Non Phophets podcast kinda weren't keen on talking about it. When it was announced he was doing it and even after the year of his atheism thought. It's entirely that, a single bloggers jump to testing things that doesn't actually help anyone. it's just a new flash in the pan. They get sensationalized by some groups, but there are skeptical/atheist groups who don't care to go by that route as well. Just as there are Christian groups who will scoff at this conversion story.

Like others mentioned, The Clergy Project and Jerry DeWitts situation was something that deserved more press and got it. It's an attempt to make an effort to helping more people other than just be itself a sensational pitch. It's a program to help privately speak and deal with people in a unique and complex situation.

In my view, theists and atheists often pull out the same card here. When a pastor or some university professor later becomes an atheist or a theist, it's sort of like if one were to catch a big fish, and gloat about it. Not only that, but each side tends to disparage the other's catch, as being an insignificant fish, as being sickly and ill fishes, and smugly considering themselves as the big catch, no one has ever been able to reel-in.

There's probably some truth to this, though not in relationship to whose penis is bigger. There does seem to be certain types of atheists and believers who are likely more prone to switching sides, than others who would be quite unlikely to ever switch sides. They are likely to see the former atheism or theism of these converts to be of little affinity to their own sense of disbelief or belief.

I don't particularly find former theists, whose former theism is even remotely relatable. I don't find people like myself ever becoming atheists. Which I'm sure is true even for many atheists here, that they never really find any atheist such as themselves ever becoming theist. And I think there's some truth to this, for both of us, though it doesn't particularly mean that any of us are better theists of atheists than those who recanted.

Well there is also plenty of people who don't care about the sensationalist piece of a person that counts as a win for their side, because the motivation and criteria of the why can factor in. I find no thrill out of more people who say their atheist or non-religious because they had a traumatic experience of a loved one suffering and couldn't reconcile a believe in Gods anymore.

That's exactly why my initial response to this was, oh another one of "those" atheist type conversions. It's not like an undefined thing, it's an actual defined notable criteria. It's so frequent this story is the atheist who never studied much about religion or religious history across the world as it came about. Or they never really grew up religious in their family but instead gathered a glimmer of it through cultural influence as it's very pervasive in many areas. These are a different type of atheist, it's usually that Or it's the, I was a teenager/20year old guy who was as some say, acting out, and was into partying and drug abuse and was a Kirk Cameron defined "devout atheist" whatever that means.

I would love to see if there were more conversion stories of the atheist who first and foremost, a skeptic in their approach and was nonreligious via examining it, whether they were raised religious or not, that doesn't really matter. But to know that they examined all the worlds religions and various ways of their makeup and origin before they came to a conclusion that 1 particular religion happened to be the answer in their approach. Until it's more of that, It's more mundane nonsense.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-05-2015, 12:39 PM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 12:24 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-05-2015 12:06 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Nice dishonest cherry picking of two stories that mean absolutely nothing. Internet hits means NOTHING you weasel. ....
You know this is true - just showing the frequency and relevance of this tactic for theists (and is justifiable for the sake of argument).

No, I don't know this is true, little prick. Hence why I said it.

Internet hits at least gauge some degree of frequency or popularity. If some chick pulls up only about 20,000 hits, it would appear that hardly anyone seems to give a shit about her. This doesn't particularly prove anything. But for us folks with limited resources to gauge whether theists or atheists post conversion/deconversion stories with more frequency it seem to be the most readily available place to start.

Quote:The instances of theists referencing conversions in debates far exceeds atheists referencing deconversions in my neck of the woods. You know this is true - just showing the frequency and relevance of this tactic for theists (and is justifiable for the sake of argument).

Yea, maybe in your neck of the woods, wherever that is, not in mine. If you want me to believe otherwise, than prove it.

Was not talking about posting one's own conversions on the web putz, all my posts are about debates/discussions with each other. Again internet hits is shit for this argument, just shows popular hits to searches by anybody. Does not pertain to uses in defending an atheist or theist position - FAIL. So you are correct it does not prove anything.

Funny how all of your philosophical woo you throw around here needs to be argued and defended by you throughout hundreds of posts, yet you won't just acknowledge that the use of personal experiences (NOT of their own) is used by theists far more than atheists in support of their views on god. Search the far reaches of these forums and see who actually cares about what individuals changed their stance on theism/atheism and see what you come up with. Yes there are a hell of a lot more atheists here so that should be telling.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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20-05-2015, 12:50 PM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 10:12 AM)Dex Wrote:  Reminds me of Richard Lumsden of the ICR, atheist professor of cell biology turned creationist Christian.

So? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-05-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: Atheist Professor Becomes Christian
(20-05-2015 12:29 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I would love to see if there were more conversion stories of the atheist who first and foremost, a skeptic in their approach and was nonreligious via examining it, whether they were raised religious or not, that doesn't really matter. But to know that they examined all the worlds religions and various ways of their makeup and origin before they came to a conclusion that 1 particular religion happened to be the answer in their approach. Until it's more of that, It's more mundane nonsense.

I would say the same thing. It would be interesting to hear from atheists who are quite knowledgeable about religions, and their various expressions, who seem to have a deep and intimate understanding of their adherents, and their perspectives, and lives, to give it a faithful rendering, while arguing for the validity of atheism.

There's some atheists that I think have a good grasp on religion, Jurgen Habermas, Scott Atran, Slavoj Zizek, John Gray, Theodore Dalrymple, George Santayana, etc... but they don't particularly argue for atheism, or that these religious beliefs are false, or even enter into theism vs atheism debates. They tend to be more disparaging of other atheists, and their crude understandings of religion. Their atheism is usually in the shadow, and not something they particular defend, or elaborate upon, though it would be interesting to hear them do so.
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