Atheist and career
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27-06-2012, 09:23 PM
RE: Atheist and career
Fucking Ghost... first you make it into an aggie thing, then a black thing, and aren't you Canadian? Then don't act like ya know America.

Spivey - easy. Lie. The fuckers don't merit your integrity. The best solution is of course to GTFO, but that does not seem practical atm. Besides, it ain't your fight. It's my fight. I'm the fucking prophet; once the mofos realize it is prophetic times, there will be activity. Thumbsup

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28-06-2012, 06:32 AM
RE: Atheist and career
Seasbury,
(27-06-2012 08:59 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  Spivey,

I know your question was directed to Matt, but I'd like to chime in with it is a BS proposition. I'd like to think I have a leg to stand on.

I'm cracker white (actually, with a nice olive complexion - tan, not burn, but I digress). I have 4 children, two are half white, half Chinese. The other two are half white and half black. Should I treat my children differently to take into consideration their "culture" or should I have treated them all as my children? Yeah, I'm "color blind" - what an asshole I was. If I could just have a second chance to do it differently...

Sorry for being snarky - but I'm not buying or biting. I love all four of my kids with the kind of love only a father can have and I'm not letting color enter the mix...sorry. End of discussion for me Smile
I get what you are saying and agree. Let me try to clarify what I mean. Looking at this from an educational stand point, I wouldn't/don't treat students differently based on minority status, and I wouldn't point it out to the rest of the class. I'm just talking about acknowledging that different races lead to different identities.

Let me use this as an example. We live right next to an indian reservation, so many of my students are tribal. For family affairs regarding tribal members, Grandma is the one in charge. Let's say I have a problem with Jonny, who is tribal, and needed to call home. If I called Mom and brought this issue up, I would offend Grandma. If I called Grandma of a student who is a non-member, I would offend Mom. This is a pretty bad example, sorry.

Obviously I live in an area with very little diversity and am looking for different viewpoints. Thanks for your input.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein
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28-06-2012, 06:50 AM
RE: Atheist and career
Hey, Spivey.

Thanks for your answer.

I'm having difficulty locking onto your question, so please straighten me out if my answer seems crooked Cool

There is no genetic basis for race. It's a social construct, not a physical reality. But it's a powerful social construct, almost completely naturalised, so one must respect it as such. The problem with the race construct is that it assumes that certain people are a certain way because they are a given race. Like if black people don't listen to hip hop then they're somehow not black. Other than that, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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28-06-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: Atheist and career
(28-06-2012 06:50 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Spivey.

Thanks for your answer.

I'm having difficulty locking onto your question, so please straighten me out if my answer seems crooked Cool

There is no genetic basis for race. It's a social construct, not a physical reality. But it's a powerful social construct, almost completely naturalised, so one must respect it as such. The problem with the race construct is that it assumes that certain people are a certain way because they are a given race. Like if black people don't listen to hip hop then they're somehow not black. Other than that, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
There is a genetic basis for race, but it's a minor difference in gene frequency. However, the term 'race' is fraught with so many cultural overtones that it is not a useful term. It has become a damaging meme.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-06-2012, 09:21 AM
RE: Atheist and career
Hey, Chas.

No. There is no genetic basis for race. That minor difference you speak of is meaningless. It is instantly explained by genetic drift. When we say race, we mean, "These people are fundamentally different than these people for this genetic reason." The simple answer is, "No they're not." Skin pigmentation does not fundamentally differentiate human beings. It's like saying that people below six foot are one race and people taller than six foot are another. Not only are the characteristics used to divide people into racial categories too broad to be of any value as well as completely arbitrary, but there is more genetic diversity within the so-called racial groups than there is between them. What we know about gene flow alone obliterates the concept. The only reason that people still use the concept is because the ideology of race has been naturalised; people just assume that it's true because they've heard it all their lives. It's a socially constructed holdover from the colonial period and deserves to be given about as much credibility as eugenics or atavism.

That being said, the social construct is very much alive and well and people put a lot of faith in it, so that has to be recognised. Hopefully we'll reason our way out of it eventually.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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28-06-2012, 10:57 AM
RE: Atheist and career
What a world of difference, when Ghost substitutes the chamomile tea for coffee at breakfast. Big Grin

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28-06-2012, 12:38 PM
RE: Atheist and career
(28-06-2012 09:21 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

No. There is no genetic basis for race. That minor difference you speak of is meaningless. It is instantly explained by genetic drift. When we say race, we mean, "These people are fundamentally different than these people for this genetic reason." The simple answer is, "No they're not." Skin pigmentation does not fundamentally differentiate human beings. It's like saying that people below six foot are one race and people taller than six foot are another. Not only are the characteristics used to divide people into racial categories too broad to be of any value as well as completely arbitrary, but there is more genetic diversity within the so-called racial groups than there is between them. What we know about gene flow alone obliterates the concept. The only reason that people still use the concept is because the ideology of race has been naturalised; people just assume that it's true because they've heard it all their lives. It's a socially constructed holdover from the colonial period and deserves to be given about as much credibility as eugenics or atavism.

That being said, the social construct is very much alive and well and people put a lot of faith in it, so that has to be recognised. Hopefully we'll reason our way out of it eventually.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
I was trying to say pretty much the same thing. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-06-2012, 01:49 PM
RE: Atheist and career
Hey, Chas.

I tend to read and re-read posts as I'm responding to them and I eventually caught whiff of a soupçon of that in your post but I really wanted to quash with extreme prejudice the idea of any legitimate genetic support for the idea.

Hey, Cantor.

I prefer meth Hobo

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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28-06-2012, 03:20 PM (This post was last modified: 28-06-2012 03:37 PM by Chas.)
RE: Atheist and career
(28-06-2012 01:49 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

I tend to read and re-read posts as I'm responding to them and I eventually caught whiff of a soupçon of that in your post but I really wanted to quash with extreme prejudice the idea of any legitimate genetic support for the idea.

Hey, Cantor.

I prefer meth Hobo

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
There was supposed to be a whole tablespoon of 'race is nonsense' in the batter. Yes Season to taste.

My point was that there are families, tribes, populations that share more genetic information than with other families, tribes, populations. I am more closely related to Scots than I am to Germans. The word 'race' is attached to all kinds of memes that I wasn't referring to.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-06-2012, 03:31 PM
RE: Atheist and career
(28-06-2012 09:21 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

No. There is no genetic basis for race. That minor difference you speak of is meaningless. It is instantly explained by genetic drift. When we say race, we mean, "These people are fundamentally different than these people for this genetic reason." The simple answer is, "No they're not." Skin pigmentation does not fundamentally differentiate human beings. It's like saying that people below six foot are one race and people taller than six foot are another. Not only are the characteristics used to divide people into racial categories too broad to be of any value as well as completely arbitrary, but there is more genetic diversity within the so-called racial groups than there is between them. What we know about gene flow alone obliterates the concept. The only reason that people still use the concept is because the ideology of race has been naturalised; people just assume that it's true because they've heard it all their lives. It's a socially constructed holdover from the colonial period and deserves to be given about as much credibility as eugenics or atavism.

That being said, the social construct is very much alive and well and people put a lot of faith in it, so that has to be recognised. Hopefully we'll reason our way out of it eventually.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Ghost (Matt) - that is the most amazing thing I've seen you say on the forums. Agree 100% :REP +10

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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