Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
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17-02-2015, 12:27 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
(17-02-2015 12:00 PM)Anti Wrote:  Its reification. Its religion.

What is its reification? What is its religion?

#sigh
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17-02-2015, 12:29 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
The true religion is toothfairysm.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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17-02-2015, 12:32 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
(17-02-2015 12:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-02-2015 12:00 PM)Anti Wrote:  Its reification. Its religion.

What is its reification? What is its religion?

Anti doesn't appear to know how sentences work anymore. Perhaps it's naptime. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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17-02-2015, 12:34 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
(17-02-2015 12:29 PM)Leo Wrote:  The true religion is toothfairysm.

[Image: tooth.jpg]

#sigh
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17-02-2015, 01:06 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
(17-02-2015 12:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-02-2015 12:29 PM)Leo Wrote:  The true religion is toothfairysm.

[Image: tooth.jpg]

where is my quarter ? I gave you my tooth, now give me what is rightfully mine Evil_monster
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17-02-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
(16-02-2015 10:36 PM)Anti Wrote:  You guys are getting upset at the exact same things you accuse religious people of doing.

Careful, you're revealing your confirmation bias. No one is getting upset, but you are "seeing" what you apparently came here to see. Drinking Beverage

As for "exact same things", that's just wishful thinking. Several people, myself included, have pointed out that countries are founded in real things - real people, real leaders, real laws, real agreed upon land boundaries (actual physical lines are not required for the boundaries themselves to be real) - while "god" is not founded in anything real. You have continued to ignore those facts, paying attention only to their being no physical lines. That's like trying to define what a house is, but mentioning only the door. It's disingenuous.

(16-02-2015 11:22 PM)Anti Wrote:  ...
rand mcnally says a 'country' is political and not physical.
...

Per my earlier request which you have also ignored, please provide a link.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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17-02-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  1. A 'god' and a 'country' are both factually the exact same thing. Both are just abstract concepts. One is a political abstraction, the other is a religious abstraction. They are both factually the same yet every atheist I talk to seems to think 'countries' are something more than just a mere abstraction. If reifying a 'god' is religion then isn't the reification of a 'country' also religion? Why the hypocrisy? 


2. Why are atheists obsessed with what other people think? I could care less about anybody's religious beliefs. Should I be obsessing like you guys? Even the term 'atheist' is based on resenting somebody else's thoughts... Labels are silly to begin with yet labeling yourself based other people's thoughts is a bit obsessive, don't you think?

Allow me to explain why I fight organized religion and the subjugation of its fans..

"religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."

Religion will lead to the inevitable downfall of mankind. It slithers its way into politics and shapes the laws of this land which affect everyone, it uses fear to brainwash people, and even more despicably, children into believing absolute BS. It is evil to the core, and the ultimate pyramid scheme..money goes up, nothing of value comes down. it preys on the sick, the gullible, the ignorant, the elderly and the uneducated....

We aren’t trying to sell anyone anything, we have a close personal relationship with reality, not jesus, or any other mythical BS religious figure. Religion is the ultimate scam and while some of it is benign in nature, it is the radical "my view of my god is right and all of you heathens who believe otherwise better get on board" mentality that bothers me. It is the sneaky little financing of a politician who they support to get him/her in office so that their crazy agendas can be quietly slid into laws that guide this country. The aggressive attempts to get pseudo-science creationism into public schools under the guise of "intelligent design", the obsession with who people love, who they marry, and how they have sex, the blocking of vital stem cell research that can save lives, the belief they know what is best for an impregnated rape victim based on biblical interpretation...these are the things that go on daily under the guise of religious freedom...Those are the people I fight. If someone wants to whip a rubber chicken around their head while dancing in a counter clock wise circle quacking like a duck makes them feel closer to their mythical god, then by all means, knock yourself out...in the privacy of your own home or in a private venue with like-minded individuals. Don’t shove the rubber chicken down my throat; don’t manipulate politicians to modify laws that affect us all, based on their views.

Now for everyone else, I am providing a free service...information to counter the misinformation being shoveled onto America by the theists. They can feel free to open their minds and learn about the real world around them, or not.

As an educated intelligent human being it is my moral responsibility to fight the corrosive creep of religion where ever I find it... To look the other way is to imply by inaction that it is ok, and religion is anything but ok.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-02-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
What the actual fuck is this nonsense?

(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  A 'god' and a 'country' are both factually the exact same thing.
Ludicrous. This assertion is only true if "abstract concept" is the ONLY bloody quality you assign to each which is not only simplistic to the point of absurdity it's not reflective of the real world opinions of the religious.

You have attached a word (abstract) to something and you feel this negates the literally infinite ways in which a country is different from a god. Even as abstract concepts. You're playing a word game, one no better then if I said Good (an abstract concept) and Evil (an abstract concept) were "factually the exact same thing". It's idiotic in it's simplicity, tells us nothing, and has no actual content as a statement.
You are grasping for straws and coming up with air.

A cow and a fern are both living things..... and are therefor factually the exact same thing. This is what you sound like. It's hilarious.Laugh out load

(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  Both are just abstract concepts.
According to who? You? In what way are you an authority on what a god is or is not? What is your evidence for such an assertion? Because it sure is not according to the religious. I know of not one Christian, Islamic, or Judean sect that teaches god is JUST a concept abstract or otherwise.


(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  They are both factually the same yet every atheist I talk to seems to think 'countries' are something more than just a mere abstraction.
1.) They are not factually the same, in any meaningful way. You have taken two separate concepts with entirely separate purposes, with entirely separate components, entirely separate contexts, and have made the claim that because they have one thing in common (that they are concepts) their fundamental differences are irrelevant and that they are "factually the exact same thing". This is an asinine assertion not even reflective of reality.
2.) Almost all people in the modern age, not just atheists, consider countries to be more then just an abstract concept. This is largely because the parts that make up a country, as country is defined, are real and tangible and can be pointed to, are demonstrable, and are established ( people, language, culture, geography, etc).
Meanwhile the parts that make up a god are not, they are all intangible, not demonstrated, and are largely other abstract concepts.


(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  If reifying a 'god' is religion then isn't the reification of a 'country' also religion?
1.) Reify means "to consider or make a concept real". However that does not mean that anything we consider to be real has actually been made real. This is the crux of it frankly, just because you consider something to be real does not make it real.

2.) Reification of a country is not religion because reify does not have any religious connotations. Reifying something does not magically make it a religion, reify is not a religious concept. How is that not obvious?Laugh out load If we reify Justice it is not a religion, if we reify Evil it's not a religion. Perhaps you should have a look at the definition of a religion so you have a basic idea what it is and what it is not.

(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  Why the hypocrisy? 
There is not any, you have fabricated it out of whole cloth by oversimplifying ideas, removing all context, ignoring the things that make them entirely different to suit your needs, creating a fallacious comparison, and honestly just a big old dose of not understand what you are talking about.



(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  Why are atheists obsessed with what other people think?

They are not. Next question? No seriously, it's not atheists that hold to a book advocating eternal horrific and disproportionate punishment for what they say is a thought crime. When atheists start telling you, with actual conviction, you will burn in hell for all eternity for what you believe you will have a point. Until then you don't however it's irreverent because....

This atheist anyway spends exactly zero time concerned about what theists think. I am concerned with two things:
1.) How people think. The kind of poor education, lack of logical reasoning, and abundance of fallacious thinking that thrives in religious communities around the world is detrimental and has been throughout human history.

2.) What you try to assert. Believe whatever the fuck you want to, but the second you start claiming it to be true (especially tied up with threats of eternal torture) your going to have to fucking demonstrate it's true. Make all the claims you want but if you fail to back them up I, and any rational person, will consider them delusions or misapprehensions.



(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  I could care less about anybody's religious beliefs.
Why are you here then trying to defend and justify religious belief to those that don't have any?
Also I hope you are not Christan cause if you are your not a very good one according to the Bible which commands followers to preach until conversion "all of creation".
Drinking Beverage


(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  Should I be obsessing like you guys?
15 pages in a day seems to say you already are. Drinking Beverage



(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  Even the term 'atheist' is based on resenting somebody else's thoughts...
Either you have never once read a definition of atheism or asked an atheist what it means or you are being a deliberately dishonest asshole because under NO definition of atheism is what you just wrote in anyway accurate.

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or the rejection of the unsubstantiated god claims made by others. It has nothing to do with the thoughts of others (I could be an atheist in the absence of any other person and their thoughts).

Secondly it has nothing to do with resenting anyone thoughts that's just an outright lie. All it takes to be an atheist is to lack a belief in a god, no resentment required. Your attempt to cheapen the stance by assigning fake content to it is dishonest, cowardly, and intellectually repulsive.



(16-02-2015 08:20 AM)Anti Wrote:  Labels are silly to begin with yet labeling yourself based other people's thoughts is a bit obsessive, don't you think?

Labels are useful constructs otherwise we would not use them, and your understanding of what atheism is is either ignorant or deliberately dishonest.

Your argument as a whole is based on a failure to know even the basics about atheism, to simplify to the point of absurdity two very different concepts, to ignore their differences without justification to build the entire foundation of your "argument", all of which you use to attack a strawman opponent that is not reflective of the real world and you STILL somehow manage to lose. Impressive.

If I was to take your original post, remove the stuff that is demonstrably absurd, factually incorrect, dishonest, a misapprehension, or just plain nonsense you would be left with about 2 fragmented sentences full of broken English and no discernible point.....which is exactly how it sounds in the first place. Drinking Beverage

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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17-02-2015, 09:38 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
Thanks for the reply, Whiskey. I really do appreciate when people take so much time to respond to me. I like the part about me oversimplifying. Thats all deconstructing concepts is. Let me try it this way...

It doesn't matter if people consider their 'god' concept to be something other than just an idea. Thats all it is. Most everyone has their own subjective concept of what a 'god' is or isn't anyways. So if some/most of them or most believe their concept is anything more than just an idea it doesn't matter. Factually it is still just an idea.

Also the same goes for 'countries':
It doesn't matter if people consider a 'country' to be something other than just an idea. Thats all it is. Some white guys made a declaration. They decided their idea of a 'country' needs to be forced onto everyone else and they had the military mite to do so and they did. So if some/most people think that the 'country' abstraction is anything more than just an idea it doesn't matter. Factually, it is still just an idea.


The reification for the religious ones is when they assign some physical characteristics to their 'god' idea... like gender, or some consciousness, or Jesus, or whatever...

The reification of the political ones is when they assign some physical characteristics to the 'country' idea... like it is people, or it is land, or some claim it's both at the same time.
=======
" Why are you here then trying to defend and justify religious belief to those that don't have any?" --- I wasn't trying to do that.

"Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or the rejection of the unsubstantiated god claims made by others. It has nothing to do with the thoughts of others" --- a 'god' is just somebody's idea. its just one of their thoughts. you are reacting to what somebody else believes.
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17-02-2015, 09:46 PM
RE: Atheist hypocrisy and obsession questions
Impulse, you said: "Several people, myself included, have pointed out that countries are founded in real things - real people, real leaders, real laws, real agreed upon land boundaries"

you said "countries are founded in real things...."

Tell me what a 'country' is. It doesn't matter what it is founded upon. First tell me what you mean by 'country' when you say it is founded on real things. Then maybe we'll get to what it is founded on. Now just tell me what you are talking about when you used the word 'countries' in:

"Several people, myself included, have pointed out that countries are founded in real things - real people, real leaders, real laws, real agreed upon land boundaries"
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