Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
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13-03-2014, 12:43 PM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
(13-03-2014 10:58 AM)john2 Wrote:  The point is that there was no way prove it was there - just as one can't prove anything about god. Since there is no scientific test on whether or not god exists is god any different from a fictional character? What makes the god concept more reasonable then *insert fictional character of your choice here*?
This is a false dichotomy. That you can't prove tow different things does not necessarily mean that they are equally unsupported. There can be middle ground. Criteria can be assessed and compared for different claims. While I've mostly been joking in this thread (Robby et. al. take everything I say soooo seriously), I did not one avenue of analysis - personal suffering. While the fact that a person will suffer for their beliefs does not prove their beliefs, it does make them more credible than someone who folds like a Saturday Post-Gazette when confronted with hardship.

Here's another - suppose I doubt you and you say, yes, the elephant said you would doubt, so he gave me miraculous powers to help persuade people, and you miraculously healed me of a disease. This again doesn't prove that the elephant exists, but it makes your claim more credible.
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13-03-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
(13-03-2014 10:49 AM)alpha male Wrote:  Also note that a unicorn could fit in a typical garage, while an elephant couldn't. And, invisible doesn't mean immaterial. This analogy is an epic fail.

As your circle-jerk buddy Ken Ham would say to reconcile his ark beliefs, it could be a baby pink elephant. And stop the strawman, no one said he had a typical garage. Looks like you're failing, even in sarcasm.

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13-03-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
(13-03-2014 12:53 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  As your circle-jerk buddy Ken Ham would say to reconcile his ark beliefs, it could be a baby pink elephant. And stop the strawman, no one said he had a typical garage. Looks like you're failing, even in sarcasm.
With no special information about the garage, isn't it reasonable to assume it's a typical garage?
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13-03-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
Never assume, and besides, a baby elephant fits nicely in a typical garage, something you glossed over as per usual.

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13-03-2014, 06:11 PM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
(13-03-2014 12:43 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 10:58 AM)john2 Wrote:  The point is that there was no way prove it was there - just as one can't prove anything about god. Since there is no scientific test on whether or not god exists is god any different from a fictional character? What makes the god concept more reasonable then *insert fictional character of your choice here*?
This is a false dichotomy. That you can't prove tow different things does not necessarily mean that they are equally unsupported. There can be middle ground. Criteria can be assessed and compared for different claims. While I've mostly been joking in this thread (Robby et. al. take everything I say soooo seriously), I did not one avenue of analysis - personal suffering. While the fact that a person will suffer for their beliefs does not prove their beliefs, it does make them more credible than someone who folds like a Saturday Post-Gazette when confronted with hardship.

Someone's suffering for a belief only attests to the strength of that person's belief. The only credibility increased is that of the person's strength of belief.

Quote:Here's another - suppose I doubt you and you say, yes, the elephant said you would doubt, so he gave me miraculous powers to help persuade people, and you miraculously healed me of a disease. This again doesn't prove that the elephant exists, but it makes your claim more credible.

Of course, because that is an observable event. It has never been credibly observed.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-03-2014, 06:33 PM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
I'd go out on a limb and say I'm a Gnostic Atheist. Or a 7, on that Dawkins scale.
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15-03-2014, 09:40 AM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
(13-03-2014 06:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 12:43 PM)alpha male Wrote:  This is a false dichotomy. That you can't prove tow different things does not necessarily mean that they are equally unsupported. There can be middle ground. Criteria can be assessed and compared for different claims. While I've mostly been joking in this thread (Robby et. al. take everything I say soooo seriously), I did not one avenue of analysis - personal suffering. While the fact that a person will suffer for their beliefs does not prove their beliefs, it does make them more credible than someone who folds like a Saturday Post-Gazette when confronted with hardship.

Someone's suffering for a belief only attests to the strength of that person's belief. The only credibility increased is that of the person's strength of belief.
As I noted, "the fact that a person will suffer for their beliefs does not prove their beliefs." However, I can reasonably rule out a claim when the claimant doesn't even believe it himself. Actually I'd say a claim doesn't exist if the supposed claimant doesn't even believe it himself.

Quote:Of course, because that is an observable event. It has never been credibly observed.
What constitutes credible evidence is a matter of opinion.
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15-03-2014, 09:42 AM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
(13-03-2014 05:14 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Never assume, and besides, a baby elephant fits nicely in a typical garage, something you glossed over as per usual.
Everyone knows that baby elephants stick close to their moms, so you're compounding the problem. Now we need a garage big enough to fit an adult elephant and a baby.
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15-03-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
(15-03-2014 09:42 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(13-03-2014 05:14 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Never assume, and besides, a baby elephant fits nicely in a typical garage, something you glossed over as per usual.
Everyone knows that baby elephants stick close to their moms, so you're compounding the problem. Now we need a garage big enough to fit an adult elephant and a baby.

It is a garage designed to hold a couple of monster trucks. Problem solved.


See how silly apologetics sounds?
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15-03-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: Atheist or agnostic correct terms?
(15-03-2014 11:08 AM)Simon Moon Wrote:  It is a garage designed to hold a couple of monster trucks. Problem solved.
Maybe, maybe not. We need OP to opine.
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