Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
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30-01-2013, 05:43 PM
Question Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
Quick background: New to the forum. I've got an INCREDIBLY similar background to Seth Andrews (I just finished his audiobook). hauntingly similar. However, I didn't inherit my Christian "faith" but "accepted" it at 18. I've been practicing that for 25+ years. About 4 years ago, a simple question put me on a journey of discovery. At a "small group" gathering someone asked "What if all are saved?" This was so foreign to me, I didn't know what to think. I had spent all of my years "in the faith" just drinking the Kool-aid and never asking many tough questions.

After copious amounts of information being sifted through, I affirmed, I was a believer in Universal Reconciliation. Long story short, this opened up a LOT of doors in my mind to think outside of the Christian box. I was liberated but told I was a heretic. Today, I've converted and I'm happy to say I'm no longer a heretic but rather an Apostate. Progress! I still work for a Christian ministry and I can't really "come out" yet, so even this post is a risk. Not sure who trolls here.

So, my question... It seems most on here and most, in general, Atheists came to that place after rejecting the idea of God as presented in the Bible and by evangelical Christians. But, I don't see much discussion on how you have made the leap from believer to Atheist and didn't stop at Theist or even Deist. It seem, to me, most have said "All that stuff in the bible is crazy. There must not be a God." (Incredibly summarized, I realize).

So help me out here (I'm not looking for a battle), tell me how you leapt over or moved through Deism or Theism. I'll be around to interact and I look forward to it. For the record, if I were to be forced to put a label on myself, it would be deist or agnostic theist (or deist). Though, I would be inclined to follow the thinking of Soren Kierkegaard who is quoted as saying "When you label me, you negate me." Confused
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30-01-2013, 06:56 PM
RE: Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
Sup.

Why not take a gander around the forums? You'll find what you're looking for.

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30-01-2013, 07:03 PM
RE: Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
(30-01-2013 05:43 PM)Quest Wrote:  Quick background: New to the forum. I've got an INCREDIBLY similar background to Seth Andrews (I just finished his audiobook). hauntingly similar. However, I didn't inherit my Christian "faith" but "accepted" it at 18. I've been practicing that for 25+ years. About 4 years ago, a simple question put me on a journey of discovery. At a "small group" gathering someone asked "What if all are saved?" This was so foreign to me, I didn't know what to think. I had spent all of my years "in the faith" just drinking the Kool-aid and never asking many tough questions.

After copious amounts of information being sifted through, I affirmed, I was a believer in Universal Reconciliation. Long story short, this opened up a LOT of doors in my mind to think outside of the Christian box. I was liberated but told I was a heretic. Today, I've converted and I'm happy to say I'm no longer a heretic but rather an Apostate. Progress! I still work for a Christian ministry and I can't really "come out" yet, so even this post is a risk. Not sure who trolls here.

So, my question... It seems most on here and most, in general, Atheists came to that place after rejecting the idea of God as presented in the Bible and by evangelical Christians. But, I don't see much discussion on how you have made the leap from believer to Atheist and didn't stop at Theist or even Deist. It seem, to me, most have said "All that stuff in the bible is crazy. There must not be a God." (Incredibly summarized, I realize).

So help me out here (I'm not looking for a battle), tell me how you leapt over or moved through Deism or Theism. I'll be around to interact and I look forward to it. For the record, if I were to be forced to put a label on myself, it would be deist or agnostic theist (or deist). Though, I would be inclined to follow the thinking of Soren Kierkegaard who is quoted as saying "When you label me, you negate me." Confused


It is simple for me. There is no evidence for any gods. End of story.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-01-2013, 07:16 PM
RE: Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
Gotta go with chas on this one. After some consideration of the evidence, there is no proper model for any god to be believed in, even if one may exist. You can split hairs over the semantics all you want, but atheist to me seems to be the simplest default position to take until any evidence otherwise is presented. I suppose I'm technically more of an agnostic, but meh...the "proper label" argument bores me.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
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30-01-2013, 07:50 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2013 08:09 PM by Quest.)
RE: Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
Hamata, I've spent a good amount of time searching the forum, knowing that's proper protocol, looking for posts about theists, deists and other related searches, but I've not been able to find any concise responses to my questions on how people have gone from rejection of the Christian faith, past the idea of deism and on to atheism. I do realize they're probably there and some of you who have been on here for a while remember them showing up in the course of your time spent in the forums. It's proven to be a very broad and difficult thing to search for in a forum.

I did watch a Matt Dillahunty video a while back, where he referenced his time spent as a theist but he didn't go into the reasoning for departing that mindset.

Ha... I'm with you Evenheathen on the idea that we MUST have a label, but for some reason I feel this compulsion to put myself into some group, though I'm quickly working towards discarding that notion.

So, hear me out on this, because this is the process I'm running through my head and I can't reconcile it at this point in my journey. Because we can't measure something, doesn't mean it's non-existent (probably a popular argument among theists). For many years man didn't have knowledge of the ability for radio waves to travel through the air, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist, it just means we didn't have the proper tools to measure their existence. I would even use the example of electricity though, I think we saw it's existence in static shocks and lightening strikes, we just didn't know how to harness it. I still think that applies as an example of what I'm saying.

I just think, sometimes we equate the Judeo-Christian description of this "god" to all ideas of a "god." It skews our thinking in the quest for understanding. We're still influenced by primitive descriptions of god in most cases. Maybe, as we stretch our thinking we'll come to a point where we realize god isn't like anything any of these religions have tried to describe.

I worked as an engineer for several years and I know this happens in the lab on occasion, where we are looking for something we've pre-defined and when we don't find it, we conclude it doesn't exist, but maybe our presupposition of what it should be like is wrong.

So, again, despising the idea of labels, I would presume that puts me into the Agnostic-Deist category as I don't see a "god" character who interacts with our daily lives, but I do leave open the possibility of a "mind" or "intention" (or something along those lines) being the driving force for all that we see around us.

Again, just hoping you'll walk with me through all these questions that pop up. Smile

--- Oh great, just did a Google search and ran across another label: Pandeist or even Panendeist. So, I guess I should say, I'm most closely aligned with a Agnostic-Panendiestic way of thinking. Hence, my love-hate relationship with labels. Haha... Sorry, had to come back and share this.
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30-01-2013, 08:10 PM
RE: Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
Welcome.

Thank you for not being a fucktard.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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30-01-2013, 10:22 PM
RE: Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
My dad had a bit of an oranges are not the only fruit upbringing here in the UK. 2mins 50 secs in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUUSB8YxUY4

He was an atheist pretty much as soon as he could think for himself and certainly by his late teens.

He proposed my brother an I were not to be baptised as we should make our own minds up. He got a lot of flack from his mum and dad about it, but what could they do ?

Once you start to look at the evidence of what we know about the universe around us and then tack onto that stuff like the immorality a god would have to have to leave the world as it is with so much suffering and obvious faults of "design", it is easy to dismiss a deity as just as much unproven as well as irrelevant to you as the god of the Bible, Quoran etc.

When you live in a world of technology it doesn't make any sense to read in the holy books that the explanations are all so basic, involving petty things and so unworthy of a god.

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30-01-2013, 10:39 PM
RE: Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
The arguments and logic you have to use to accept god don't work for me. I can't ignore the contradictions, logical fallacies and constantly changing 'will' of this so called divine power.

Welcome to the forums and thanks for being polite. We've recently suffered a troll invasion. Your communication style is a breath of fresh air Smile

...it would rather be a man... [who] plunges into scientific questions with which he has no real acquaintance, only to obscure them with aimless rhetoric, and distract the attention of his hearers from the real point at issue by eloquent digressions and skilled appeals to religious prejudice.
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30-01-2013, 10:42 PM
RE: Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
Mine was probably a lot of simple jumping around.

I never had a deep belief as a kid, Dawkins would say I shouldn't say I ever was a Christian, bah.

But by the time my bible class for conformation came around, I basically twiddled everything I could down to being misunderstood or taking a metaphorical interpreation. I remember reading the ages of the peoples lives being so long, I figured they must of not calculated a year as we did and maybe counted them as month cycles. (Which basically calculates to Noah being just under 80 which made perfect sense to me.)

I realized soon that what people thought about the Bible and Jesus was completely different from what it actually said.. and started to think all organized religions were wrong, but their may be a God that created it all. So that's when I transitioned into just thinking deistic through highschool into college; there I looked into various other religions, kinda that phase when people often look for meaning in the world and studied a bit on Buddhist and Shinto religion... perhaps a little Wicca tool; That didn't hold any water and just seemed like just as silly to me.

At that point I was still pretty indecisive on any decisions, so I would say I was an agnostic and less deist. I think the straws that finally pushed me over to thinking as an atheist over agnostic was Penn Jillete(in an essay he wrote on not beliefing in God in such a way he would say he is beyond atheism. Which is kinda ironic but I thought the idea was cool then, now I think the phrase is dumb.) It was probably the first time I saw the argument of, well I don't say I don't believe in the giant pink elephant or whatever example he chose so why would I believe in a God, and which God? That aspect, as well as seeing information on the other similarities in God archetypes and borrowed Gods themselves in history. Seeing how the Canaanite Gods El and Ashura are in the Bible and seeing the reasons El is in the bible at some points, and Yhwh in others. It was all just slowly building information on other bits of information over the years.

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30-01-2013, 10:58 PM
RE: Atheist, theist, deist, or simply not Christian?
I'm what you'd call a gnostic atheist.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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