Atheist to Believer
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12-01-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer



Onward, my faithful steed!
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12-01-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer
(12-01-2014 01:43 PM)RRex Wrote:  As I expected, the responses are nasty. I used to be a snarky atheist too. Then I grew up and realized that my view of the world wasn't the only one there is.

While I'm dealing with the brain damage and am under a doctor's care, I'm no longer psychotic. The jabs weren't necessary, but I recognize them as the insults that are thrown when one enters atheist territory. Polite conversation goes out the window.


It's not unusual for someone in a psychotic state to believe all kinds of.... well... unusual stuff. Regarding your belief that the human hand is complex and must have been designed by a higher power, please read Why Evolution is True by
Jerry A. Coyne. It's a wonderful book.

You might also consider this; the human hand is very delicate, the fingers are easily broken, people get carpel tunnel frequently, it's a prime place for arthritis to form ( I know because I have it) and you have to use tools to make anything large like buildings and bridges. If I were a god and wanted to make a hand I'd sure make it less delicate and much, much more powerful, certainly less prone to diseases and pain. Take care.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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12-01-2014, 04:37 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer
'RRex'
Quote:Where did everything around us come from? Did it just pop into existence?

No it did just pop into existence - we have robust evidence for an evolutionary process for life - I can direct you to high quality books and explanations for the details RRex.

As for "everything around us" we have causal explanations for biological evolution i.e living things...for geological evolution for mountains, glaciers, deserts etc etc, cosmological evolution for planet formation, star formation and nuclear-genesis - literally the source of all the atoms in us except hydrogen (& some helium & lithium formed prior to stars)
Basically we know where "everything around us" came from in many cases.

As for the big bang - cosmologists have investigated the first 3 minutes during a very small, high temperature + pressure state.
What actually happened at time=0 or close to zero (plank constant) we don't know - this is mysterious.
It is likely that the big bang is a transition phase and energy is eternal and indestructible - neither created not destroyed. No one says "it just popped in from nothing". Even cosmologists such as Lawrence Krauss describe an early quantum state which is not technically an absolute nothing (in the universe from nothing). i.e something always exists.
No need for God, No need for intelligent design.

There is much in the universe which is horrific design - I can redirect you to my posts on the intelligent design thread about malaria and harlequins ichtheosis and hundreds of other unintelligent designs.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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12-01-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer
(12-01-2014 04:37 PM)Baruch Wrote:  As for the big bang - cosmologists have investigated the first 3 minutes during a very small, high temperature + pressure state.
What actually happened at time=0 or close to zero (plank constant) we don't know - this is mysterious.
It is likely that the big bang is a transition phase and energy is eternal and indestructible - neither created not destroyed.

And God said "LET THERE BE LIGHT!" and then the motherfucking shit hit the motherfucking fan real quick like. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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12-01-2014, 04:58 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer
RRex
I was not joking about "opening my eyes, seeing unintelligent design and being converted to naturalism" Might of sounded like a pun on conversion stories but I was deeply effected when working in a hospital in an intensive care unit, neonatal unit and now for the last 7 years as an oncology-haematologist.

What if I told you 9 years ago I was an intelligent design preacher. I read Michael Behe's book and many others by the Discovery institute and used their examples to prove intelligent design in seminars !!!
There are vast amounts of botched up design in nature only explainable via a messy evolutionary process. I'm even embarrassed by the things I used to teach about intelligent design many years ago when I think about it today such as "the irreducible complexity of blood clotting factors" with all the wonderful miraculous steps for haemoglobin formation, oxygen utilization and blood clotting.

I work as a haematologist !!! We have to try fix Gods screwed up mess if it was intelligent design !!! Sickle cell anaemia's, Myelomas, Myodysplasias, thrombocytopenia's, thrombocythemia's, thalassemia, leukaemia's, fibrinogenolysis, lymphoma's, polyostotic sclerosing histiocytosis, Hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis, Juvenile xanthogranuloma, Shwachman–Bodian–Diamond syndrome.........................................it goes on and on and on. VAST unintelligent botched up design.
If there was a designer it would be fired for gross incompetence, sued for negligence and have to resign for flawed screwed up & botched torturing.

I mean who would design a system where urination & sexual organs are combined with tubes either shared or so close together leading to urinary infections and great location for fungus to grow ? Its horrific !

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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12-01-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer
I hate doing this but harlequins ichthyosis is the best example of screwed up design

I was going to post the images - but I don't know what age people on this post and whether they can take offence or become acutely disturbed if I did.
I work in a hospital daily and seen some pretty gruesome things but harlequins still gives me the creeps - you just cant get desensitized to such horror.



Beware:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=harleq...80&bih=834

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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12-01-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer
(12-01-2014 12:31 PM)RRex Wrote:  In 2008 I suffered a psychotic break. I saw, heard, and smelled a number of things as a result. This altered perception of the world resulted in my switch from rabid atheism to a belief in some sort of intelligent design. Some of my experiences could only have been engineered by a superior, all-powerful entity, particularly the voice in my head.

While I now suffer residual negative effects from this experience I still believe our lives are directed by something much bigger than ourselves and that everyone would benefit from a week of living in the psychotic state. I imagine it may be likened to alternate realities experienced through illegal drugs, although I, in no way, advocate their use.

That being said, I encourage those who don't believe to look past the rigid dogma of organized religion to see the bigger picture. This experience we're having isn't random. Proof of a creator is all around us. Look at the design of your hand. This in itself is proof that we are subjects of a consummate engineer.

The other thing you have to ask yourself is "where did god come from". May I ask, do you think god was always there and always existed? If you believe in a designer/god that made everything on Earth it stands to reason that you need to ask who made god? So where did this god-designer come from.

What happens is that inquiring minds begin to ask the exact same questions about the beginnings of god as they ask about the beginnings of life on earth. But the difference is that science has a more tangible proof of how life began. They can see fossils and measure the speed of light, see the edge of the universe with telescopes etc. You can't do that with god(s).

Take care.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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12-01-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer
(12-01-2014 12:31 PM)RRex Wrote:  Proof of a creator is all around us. Look at the design of your hand. This in itself is proof that we are subjects of a consummate engineer.

No. There is no evidence that God exists that doesn't require you to assume God exists in the first place. Think about it: if you don't assume God exists in the first place, why would hands be evidence that a God exists? The logic is circular.


(12-01-2014 01:50 PM)RRex Wrote:  I stand corrected. Civil conversation is impossible here.

That's not true, although, people here have little patience for people showing up and asserting that they have proof that they cannot actually show to anyone else.
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12-01-2014, 07:38 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer
(12-01-2014 02:01 PM)RRex Wrote:  1. I've read hundreds of science books. They have yet to explain the complexity of life.

That's a god of the gaps argument. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean that the cause must necessarily be X. If you don't have any other proof for X, then you can't use a lack of understanding to assume it. That's the same logic that made people believe in sun gods to explain the sun rising and setting each day.


(12-01-2014 02:01 PM)RRex Wrote:  2. I did not say I believe in a god. God implies religious intent. I am not religious and I do not believe this superior being exists to be worshipped.

So, are you a deist or a pantheist, or something? Do you believe there is an intelligent entity out there responsible for all of this, or do you believe the universe in and of itself is intelligent?


(12-01-2014 02:04 PM)RRex Wrote:  I did not say god broke my mind. It happened. It was a negative reaction to a medication. "God" had nothing to do with it.

I labeled nothing a miracle.

Then how do you attribute your experience to believing in a higher power? Did the psychotic break have anything to do with it?
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12-01-2014, 07:45 PM
RE: Atheist to Believer
(12-01-2014 02:04 PM)RRex Wrote:  I did not say god broke my mind. It happened. It was a negative reaction to a medication. "God" had nothing to do with it.

I labeled nothing a miracle.
Quote:Then how do you attribute your experience to believing in a higher power? Did the psychotic break have anything to do with it?

I was wondering that too... When I read this, it seems more like he's saying he believes he was designed by something to make him break down and reset to an earlier version of himself.

It seems to be a personal god, if anything. Otherwise this would happen to everybody.

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