Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
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22-02-2016, 11:51 PM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
(22-02-2016 09:09 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Gender dysphoria, which is a required condition for the state of being transgender, is a psychiatric diagnosis. Gender dysphoria is a medical disorder according to both the DSM-5 and the IDC-10 CM.

It's not like being transgender is different depending on how one classifies the condition, though. And mental illness is not a dirty word. Doesn't really matter whether it's a mental illness or not, then.

Gender dysphoria is more of a side effect of being transgender. It doesn't cause the person to be transgender. There are varying degrees of gender dysphoria. Some people have very little and some are incapacitated by it.

There are many things that affect our gender and one of them is how the brain wires itself when exposed to estrogen or testosterone during pregnancy. Gender isn't only what's between the legs.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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23-02-2016, 12:37 AM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
It's weird, but I don't really get what mental illness is anymore. Everyone who looks for a mental illness in themselves can find one. If you have trouble narrowing down your own, Google can help and will refer you to professionals who are trained to latinize the assorted pains of being a human correctly for insurance forms.

But anyway. The video bugged me too much to finish. Maybe they got to a thoughtful conversation by the end. The question seems to be "Are trans people sick?" Trans people are surgically and medically treatable, so illness is the language that gets used. Pressure to behave counter to your feeling of self will eventually manifest anxiety, depression, etc. so the psych docs have something to prescribe too. These interested groups need the word "illness" on it in order to assist and bill a trans person. Aside from that trick of language and professional specialty, I don't see anything sick about a person sensing a mismatch between hardware and software. To say that is a pathology is to tell a trans person that there is something wrong with their experience of who they are. That seems pretty arrogant and presumptuous to me.
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23-02-2016, 09:59 AM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
Personal thought, transgenderism is a mental condition. So is being heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual. Each requires a 'treatment' to live happily being in that condition. It just so happens that the 'treatment' for being heterosexual is vastly abundant, ubiquitous really, and thus extremely cheap compared to the more socially and sometimes economically expensive conditions of the other three. Being 'healthy' is a condition that requires input, too, just less of it than being 'unhealthy'. We try to get to a lower cost state where we can, but ultimately even though it's a lot more expensive to be blind than to not be blind, getting upset at the blind person for not having an option in the matter is pointless.

What will be interesting is if, some time in the future, it becomes an option, if there is some treatment to alter the brain instead of the body. At that point, which is the better method? Living with the condition or adapting the brain to be in the lower-cost state? What does that say about us? Or the condition, for that matter?
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23-02-2016, 01:08 PM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
(22-02-2016 11:51 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Gender dysphoria is more of a side effect of being transgender. It doesn't cause the person to be transgender.


Transgenderism, in any meaningfull definition (dictionary.com, websters, wikipedia, american psychology association, ect ect.) includes gender dysphoria. You are essentialially right in saying that dysphoria doesn't cause one to be transgender (I never said it did..); it's not a chain of occurrences. One can experience gender dysphoria and not be transgender. However the reverse is not true: To be transgender means experiencing gender dysphoria - you can't take gender dysphoria out of the definition and still be talking about transgenderism.

Quote:There are many things that affect our gender and one of them is how the brain wires itself when exposed to estrogen or testosterone during pregnancy. Gender isn't only what's between the legs.

Not sure if this was specifically directed at me or just general expoundation on the topic, but again I haven't contended anything to the contrary.
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23-02-2016, 02:04 PM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
(23-02-2016 01:08 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 11:51 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Gender dysphoria is more of a side effect of being transgender. It doesn't cause the person to be transgender.


Transgenderism, in any meaningfull definition (dictionary.com, websters, wikipedia, american psychology association, ect ect.) includes gender dysphoria. You are essentialially right in saying that dysphoria doesn't cause one to be transgender (I never said it did..); it's not a chain of occurrences. One can experience gender dysphoria and not be transgender. However the reverse is not true: To be transgender means experiencing gender dysphoria - you can't take gender dysphoria out of the definition and still be talking about transgenderism.

Quote:There are many things that affect our gender and one of them is how the brain wires itself when exposed to estrogen or testosterone during pregnancy. Gender isn't only what's between the legs.

Not sure if this was specifically directed at me or just general expoundation on the topic, but again I haven't contended anything to the contrary.

Not directed at you. Just general information.

After my daughter transitioned her gender dysphoria gradually disappeared and was replaced by a happier outlook on life. Of course she remembers what she went through to get where she is now. She hasn't forgotten the gender dysphoria she once experienced.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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23-02-2016, 07:06 PM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
(23-02-2016 02:04 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(23-02-2016 01:08 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Transgenderism, in any meaningfull definition (dictionary.com, websters, wikipedia, american psychology association, ect ect.) includes gender dysphoria. You are essentialially right in saying that dysphoria doesn't cause one to be transgender (I never said it did..); it's not a chain of occurrences. One can experience gender dysphoria and not be transgender. However the reverse is not true: To be transgender means experiencing gender dysphoria - you can't take gender dysphoria out of the definition and still be talking about transgenderism.


Not sure if this was specifically directed at me or just general expoundation on the topic, but again I haven't contended anything to the contrary.

Not directed at you. Just general information.

After my daughter transitioned her gender dysphoria gradually disappeared and was replaced by a happier outlook on life. Of course she remembers what she went through to get where she is now. She hasn't forgotten the gender dysphoria she once experienced.

I think it takes a lot of courage to live your truth--whatever that may mean for each person. I think your daughter was very brave and I think it's wonderful she is happy now. If anything, society is the mental illness which tries to tell people how to behave and how to live their lives.
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05-03-2016, 05:55 PM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
I'm transgender, and, the way I see it is, I'm dysphoric. I feel sick and trapped inside this female body. It's not going to make me go on a psycho killing spree or start sacrificing small animals... But it does give me anxiety and depression (for example, how could any guy like being at work and being called "baby, sweet thing, little lady, etc." by old, disgusting-smelling truck drivers? It's not fun.). There's nothing wrong with me, other than I am viewed as someone I am not constantly and it kills me inside.
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05-03-2016, 06:01 PM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
(05-03-2016 05:55 PM)Llamaswithkatanas Wrote:  I'm transgender, and, the way I see it is, I'm dysphoric. I feel sick and trapped inside this female body. It's not going to make me go on a psycho killing spree or start sacrificing small animals... But it does give me anxiety and depression (for example, how could any guy like being at work and being called "baby, sweet thing, little lady, etc." by old, disgusting-smelling truck drivers? It's not fun.). There's nothing wrong with me, other than I am viewed as someone I am not constantly and it kills me inside.

Do you plan to have the operation?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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05-03-2016, 08:47 PM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
(05-03-2016 05:55 PM)Llamaswithkatanas Wrote:  I'm transgender, and, the way I see it is, I'm dysphoric. I feel sick and trapped inside this female body. It's not going to make me go on a psycho killing spree or start sacrificing small animals... But it does give me anxiety and depression (for example, how could any guy like being at work and being called "baby, sweet thing, little lady, etc." by old, disgusting-smelling truck drivers? It's not fun.). There's nothing wrong with me, other than I am viewed as someone I am not constantly and it kills me inside.

How old are you?

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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06-03-2016, 01:00 AM
RE: Atheist vs. Christian: Transgenders have a mental illness
(05-03-2016 05:55 PM)Llamaswithkatanas Wrote:  But it does give me anxiety and depression (for example, how could any guy like being at work and being called "baby, sweet thing, little lady, etc." by old, disgusting-smelling truck drivers? It's not fun.).
Do non-transgender ladies enjoy workmates calling them "baby, sweet thing, little lady, etc." or would it be somewhat "normal" to not like being treated that way?

I'd never speak like that to a female at work. Always keep it professional at work. Not a place for that.
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