Atheist with a Question
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16-06-2016, 05:45 PM
RE: Atheist with a Question
"Why are you teaching us evolutionary lies in a Criminology class?"

Twice in my short career this shit has come up. Once as a complaint to my Chair. Both over the same class, and the same section of the class. Listen kids, I'm sorry that you and 40-some percent of Americans can't accept that evolution isn't make believe, but when the very first biological theories on criminality are a direct result of people reading Darwin's "On the Origin of Species", I kind of have to mention evolution. And it stumps me what to say for the most part, because "your faith is wrong" doesn't fly well professionally. Thus far my reply has been, "You're entitled to your opinion of evolution, however, since the biological theories were originally based in attempts to prove that criminals were atavistic throwbacks to a less evolved form of mankind, we kind of have to at least touch upon it." But a better answer seriously eludes me.

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16-06-2016, 06:05 PM
RE: Atheist with a Question
When I first came out as an atheist my mother asked me what I was going to do when the earth came to an end, and I told her I intended to sit on the edge and spit off into the abyss.
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16-06-2016, 06:23 PM
RE: Atheist with a Question
Most stump me just by talking, it's like going to Japan without knowing Japanese.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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16-06-2016, 06:53 PM
RE: Atheist with a Question
(16-06-2016 05:45 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  "Why are you teaching us evolutionary lies in a Criminology class?"

Twice in my short career this shit has come up. Once as a complaint to my Chair. Both over the same class, and the same section of the class. Listen kids, I'm sorry that you and 40-some percent of Americans can't accept that evolution isn't make believe, but when the very first biological theories on criminality are a direct result of people reading Darwin's "On the Origin of Species", I kind of have to mention evolution. And it stumps me what to say for the most part, because "your faith is wrong" doesn't fly well professionally. Thus far my reply has been, "You're entitled to your opinion of evolution, however, since the biological theories were originally based in attempts to prove that criminals were atavistic throwbacks to a less evolved form of mankind, we kind of have to at least touch upon it." But a better answer seriously eludes me.

How about "This is a science-based subject, not a religious one. You will learn the science or you will fail the course." Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-06-2016, 07:55 PM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2016 09:41 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Atheist with a Question
I would like to to be Tiger Woods. .... after thinking about it,no I wouldn't.




#sigh
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16-06-2016, 09:17 PM
RE: Atheist with a Question
(16-06-2016 06:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  How about "This is a science-based subject, not a religious one. You will learn the science or you will fail the course." Drinking Beverage
I'm supposed to be "nice" about such things, lest I make the Dean's life more hectic. Funny enough though, that should be the next addition to it, as once we discuss how horribly wrong and racist the first biological theories were, we discuss how they lead to the application of the Scientific Method to theories in our field.

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16-06-2016, 09:36 PM
RE: Atheist with a Question
Theists will often stump me in the sense of flabbergasting me, rendering me so befuddled by their illogic that I can't form a coherent reply. Or just being so illogical that I can't even make sense of how what they're saying even comes close to implying the existence of a god even in their own minds.

And I've been a bit stumped when they challenge me to explain this or that mystery of the universe, just before they chime in with goddidit. Goddidit DOESN'T stump me, but the actual explanation sometimes does.

But I've yet to encounter an actual argument for a god -- at least, for anything close to what any of us would think of as a god -- that stumps me. The only arguments that come close to proving a god are ones that twist the conventional definition of a god so far out of its typical semantics that it's no longer the same concept any more. And it's pretty easy to call them out on that.

(15-06-2016 08:04 PM)skyking Wrote:  GWG, they always win in the end, in their minds.
The deathbed conversion! Nobody expects the deathbed conversion!

Hitchens expected it.
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17-06-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Atheist with a Question
(15-06-2016 06:15 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  So Phu Cat thinks they can stump us here with their inane questions that are so cliche, we got the watered down Pascal's Wager and something about sex and evolution and recently, what if science proves God? Oh you mean that entire field of study you ignore because it keeps proving the Bible wrong? Rolleyes

My question is simple, has a theist ever asked you a question that really stumped you? Maybe when you first became atheist or even recently.

For me it doesn't happen too often, usually when they get distracted by world history and start getting science wrong, I just tell them they are wrong but I don't have every bit of that info memorized so unless I'm online and do a quick Google search I have to change the subject.

Other than that when I was younger it really baffled me when they would ask "Well I like to believe my dead friends and family members are in Heaven and I will see them again, what's so wrong with that?" Well nothing, just believe it but why do you also have to believe in Hell and a bunch of dumb creationist bullshit at the same time? It used to make me feel bad especially when my mom said it, so I'd just sit there and say "Well maybe there is a happy afterlife for us."

Now I just say "Well, there's no proof of Heaven, or God, or angels so your dead loved ones are just dead so you should probably treat them better and spend more time with them now because this may just be it." I'm sure there's a better answer but I just hate to destroy that fantasy, death is just tough.

Personally, I avoid directly answering questions because I consider it a waste of time. I'll give them a few of my most passionate reasons why I don't believe anymore and then attempt to change the subject. People will believe what they want to believe (myself included). And, when faced with a challenge, they'll just dig in deeper. No amount of specific and rational details you give them will change their world view.

If they persist, I will go as far as to give them verses from the Bible that support my conclusion, but then leave it at that. I make no attempt to prove them wrong, change their mind, challenge their logic or belittle them for what they believe. I don't have any desire to prolong the discussion because I see it as an exercise in futility.

I'm not a good debater, but I feel there's no need to be in order to express my deeply felt beliefs. Nor is it important to have answers to every question. Even the best and most knowledgeable debaters just talk past each other. Watch the theist vs atheist debates on youtube and tell me if you're at all swayed by a theist's arguments. You're probably not.

Some people relish a good debate. It just isn't my thing. I enjoy watching debates. But if I attempt to do it, it usually results in a very uncomfortable emotional tension between us. And what good does it do in the end. My motto: Live and let live.

"Why hast thou forsaken me, o deity whose existence I doubt..." - Dr. Sheldon Cooper
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17-06-2016, 11:42 AM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2016 11:49 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: Atheist with a Question
Not really, every single question I've seen from theists is massively overly simplistic, and there's often some very easy to understand aspect that they're missing, but they fundamentally can't understand it due to their concept of epistemology or belief in the nonmaterial. They often can't even understand that they can't know something (like how the Universe was created) and they're simply not willing to admit that they can't know that, because it would be too uncertain for them. So, their insecurity about that leads to hostility.

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18-06-2016, 12:50 AM
RE: Atheist with a Question
in my earlier days of questioning christianity I used to get stumped by pascal's wager because I was still living in the world of "it's the christian god or nothing".

nowadays most common theist arguments don't really trouble me, and their arguments are pretty much the same i.e. the bible isn't LITERALLY true, old testament doesn't count, etc. because they can't really think outside their religious comfort zone to ask harder questions, much like I used to struggle thinking outside of the "christian god or nothing" dichotomy.
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