Atheistic Christianity
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14-10-2015, 08:32 AM
Atheistic Christianity
Since moving to the Near East, Jesusland, I have come to appreciate the significance of the New Testament as a work of noble atheists. I no longer see it as a work written to prop up some sky monkey but as an elegant and sophisticated romp.

First we have the "world view" of Christianity, that "God" is actually the "Word". Wow! If that isn't a departure from flying dongs, I don't know what is. (expect someone to point out that "God" could speak and utter a "word", therefore, he must be a big man)

Then we move to the Grundnorm of Christianity, which is "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Wow! That's different. No sacrificing children or goats to an angry old sky man.

Then there are a list of do's and don'ts, like go make up with anyone who you have fallen out with before you start praying for yourself and turn the other cheek.

That, when you think about it, encapsulates Christian morality... So where is the God figure in this? If you look at it one way, it is utterly atheistic in the sense which theism was understood in its day and apart from some silly points about "Word=Logos=God=?a big man? rather than Logos=Reason, you have a secular religion.

But, hey, how do you sell this in Abrahamland? Well, you have to wrap it up in a load of stories which suck people in and which somehow tie into their own belief structure, culture and history. You need a hero, or maybe two, like Jesus and his twin brother, Judas Thomas Didymus. You then roll them up into one character, place it in a convenient time frame and roll it out to the public. None of this actually makes any difference, of course, to what Christianity actually is, because it is all a fictionalized version of something which has no bearing on the underlying moral message.

This is the conundrum for Christians. If a religion is reason based and the writers of it were not theists in the same way as those they are preaching it to, because they are trying to "convert" them, then there is a game going on.

Since reason is at the core of Christianity, you have to read Christianity that way, top down. And the writers of the NT, if they saw reason at the top, wrote the supposedly historical parts, not to elucidate moral principles, but as a piece of propaganda because you can't square "reason" with "unreason". Which is why the NT has to be knowingly fictionalized but also why it is more likely than not to be written out of a need to persuade. The need to persuade means, imho, that it is more likely that the figures in the NT relate to a history of the time than that they relate to a pure myth.

That explains everything we all need to know about Christianity.

We can now move on.
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14-10-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: Atheistic Christianity
(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Since moving to the Near East, Jesusland, I have come to appreciate the significance of the New Testament as a work of noble atheists. I no longer see it as a work written to prop up some sky monkey but as an elegant and sophisticated romp.

First we have the "world view" of Christianity, that "God" is actually the "Word". Wow! If that isn't a departure from flying dongs, I don't know what is. (expect someone to point out that "God" could speak and utter a "word", therefore, he must be a big man)

Then we move to the Grundnorm of Christianity, which is "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Wow! That's different. No sacrificing children or goats to an angry old sky man.

Then there are a list of do's and don'ts, like go make up with anyone who you have fallen out with before you start praying for yourself and turn the other cheek.

That, when you think about it, encapsulates Christian morality... So where is the God figure in this? If you look at it one way, it is utterly atheistic in the sense which theism was understood in its day and apart from some silly points about "Word=Logos=God=?a big man? rather than Logos=Reason, you have a secular religion.

But, hey, how do you sell this in Abrahamland? Well, you have to wrap it up in a load of stories which suck people in and which somehow tie into their own belief structure, culture and history. You need a hero, or maybe two, like Jesus and his twin brother, Judas Thomas Didymus. You then roll them up into one character, place it in a convenient time frame and roll it out to the public. None of this actually makes any difference, of course, to what Christianity actually is, because it is all a fictionalized version of something which has no bearing on the underlying moral message.

This is the conundrum for Christians. If a religion is reason based and the writers of it were not theists in the same way as those they are preaching it to, because they are trying to "convert" them, then there is a game going on.

Since reason is at the core of Christianity, you have to read Christianity that way, top down. And the writers of the NT, if they saw reason at the top, wrote the supposedly historical parts, not to elucidate moral principles, but as a piece of propaganda because you can't square "reason" with "unreason". Which is why the NT has to be knowingly fictionalized but also why it is more likely than not to be written out of a need to persuade. The need to persuade means, imho, that it is more likely that the figures in the NT relate to a history of the time than that they relate to a pure myth.

That explains everything we all need to know about Christianity.

We can now move on.

It's not entirely a bad start. It would be more interesting if you took the perspective and read it all the way through. The Gospels peddle a religion, that's primarily relational, and creates parallel between one's relationship with God, and with Man. It resorts to our most primordial relationship at the heart of it's metaphors, the One between a father and a son. That the Father delights in the return of his lost son, no matter the transgressions he has made in his life, what squalor he might have made of his fortunes.

It extend the scope of this relationship beyond tribal and immediate bounds, going as far as extending it to one's enemies, to label out benedictions upon their head as opposed to curses, to not meet evil with evil. It takes the God above, and so distant to us, and transforms him into a man among us, a brutalized and murdered innocent, left to hang, while offering forgiveness towards those that nailed him there. It takes the voice of God and puts in the mouth of the suffering victim, of the poor, and weak, and declares that the only image of God, is in flesh and blood.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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14-10-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: Atheistic Christianity
That started out ok, but I sort of lost the plot after the first sentence.

The problem with what you are saying is this:

You say, "The Gospels peddle a religion, that's primarily relational..." That all has to be read in terms of the structure I have set out. If I say, for instance, that the guiding principle in all I write is that I am a rationalist, first, last, always and that this idea of rationality is so strong that, lets call it "God", then it is hard to take some other idea and say that the latter idea should be used to interpret the "Grund Norm" and "World View". You can't logically do that. You have to look at the story of the father and son from a rational, do unto others, perspective. So, you have to start with the concept of "love thy neighbour, and your own son" and the Grund Norm says you have to forgive. That is how to look at it.

The crucifixtion story is about the brutality of the people of the Near East, up against which the Romans came and fought a war which lasted more than a hundred years. That was the punishment they meted out to the losers. They used the losers own symbol, the cross, to nail them to, ergo, the Cross is a Judaic symbol and the "Christ" is a Judaic figure, of the Judaism which prevailed at the time. Not of modern rabinnical Judaism which bears little resemblence to the old Judaism of that time. Again, this is part of the story.

It's like writing a Superman story which is meant to portray a Christian-based theme and getting hung up on the story, not the message, and then, on top of that, trying to read something into some of the scenes, which are just there for merchandizing purposes. Superman loves Lois Lane's shoes. It's a story about man's hidden desire to be like women, and wear high heels. No, it's not, that's just part of the "story".

Anyway, I will say this, with all sincerity, I am not a deist or a theist, but I am now a great admirer of the New Testament and of Christianity because, having lived for a few years among an Abrahmic religion where people are being crucified about 300 miles from my house, I realize the need for this religion even today.

For me this is ancient "real politics", not anything which has to do with a supernatural being.
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14-10-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Atheistic Christianity
Thanks for the good laugh.

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Since moving to the Near East, Jesusland, I have come to appreciate the significance of the New Testament as a work of noble atheists. I no longer see it as a work written to prop up some sky monkey but as an elegant and sophisticated romp.

More insane dot connecting. Of course. What else would we expect from someone who really NEVER studied History AT ALL.

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  First we have the "world view" of Christianity, that "God" is actually the "Word". Wow! If that isn't a departure from flying dongs, I don't know what is. (expect someone to point out that "God" could speak and utter a "word", therefore, he must be a big man)

It's a 'departure' from nothing. It's the central Gnostic tenet, and Christianity was founded basically by an Hellenic Jew (Saul of Tarsus).

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Then we move to the Grundnorm of Christianity, which is "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Wow! That's different. No sacrificing children or goats to an angry old sky man.

It's not "different" at all. It's the CENTRAL teaching of late 1st Century Rabbinic Judaism. But of course, you know actually NOTHING about the period, so you can make up this preposterous CRAP, and fling it and hope it sticks.

The first Christians were JEWS, for decades. They were not "atheists" AT ALL.
Reason is NOT "at the core" of Christianity. Paul (it's founder) said faith was a gift from GOD.

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  That explains everything we all need to know about Christianity.

That's about all YOU need to know to play "dot-connection" in your delusional intellectual vacuum, where you make shit up.

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  We can now move on.

Please. Feel free. Buh bye.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-10-2015, 11:16 AM
RE: Atheistic Christianity
Fucking Bucky. Laugh out load

living word
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14-10-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: Atheistic Christianity
(14-10-2015 10:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Thanks for the good laugh.

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Since moving to the Near East, Jesusland, I have come to appreciate the significance of the New Testament as a work of noble atheists. I no longer see it as a work written to prop up some sky monkey but as an elegant and sophisticated romp.

More insane dot connecting. Of course. What else would we expect from someone who really NEVER studied History AT ALL.

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  First we have the "world view" of Christianity, that "God" is actually the "Word". Wow! If that isn't a departure from flying dongs, I don't know what is. (expect someone to point out that "God" could speak and utter a "word", therefore, he must be a big man)

It's a 'departure' from nothing. It's the central Gnostic tenet, and Christianity was founded basically by an Hellenic Jew (Saul of Tarsus).

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Then we move to the Grundnorm of Christianity, which is "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Wow! That's different. No sacrificing children or goats to an angry old sky man.

It's not "different" at all. It's the CENTRAL teaching of late 1st Century Rabbinic Judaism. But of course, you know actually NOTHING about the period, so you can make up this preposterous CRAP, and fling it and hope it sticks.

The first Christians were JEWS, for decades. They were not "atheists" AT ALL.
Reason is NOT "at the core" of Christianity. Paul (it's founder) said faith was a gift from GOD.

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  That explains everything we all need to know about Christianity.

That's about all YOU need to know to play "dot-connection" in your delusional intellectual vacuum, where you make shit up.

(14-10-2015 08:32 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  We can now move on.

Please. Feel free. Buh bye.

Bucky Wucky.

Diddums.

You really are a baby with a big rattle.

You've got to learn to let go.

Stop being such a big hit for yourself and actually try to understand what I am saying instead of making a dick of yourself.

Bowing
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