Atheistic and Theistic Universes
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07-03-2015, 01:38 PM
Atheistic and Theistic Universes
Greetings! This is my first thread and I hope it isn't too silly! If we live in a multiverse as some cosmologists claim, is it possible there may be other universes with a different configeration that allows for the evolution of beings that are far superior to us in ability? Is it possible that these superior beings could create model universes of an inferior design that replicates worlds similar to ours with its own semi-intelligent little creatures? Wouldn't these cretures be justified in believing they live in a theistic universe that was created by an intelligent designer? Of course, I believe it is logically impossible for such superior creatures to possess the attributes of a perfect and eternal God, but I can envisage the less than perfect inhabitants of a more complex universe making crappy little imperfect worlds like the one we live in!

Note: I have aa slight vision problem and typing is very difficult for me. Please excuse any typing mistakes I may hae made.

TransfiniteSmile[/size]
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07-03-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: Atheistic and Theistic Universes
(07-03-2015 01:38 PM)Transfinite Wrote:  Greetings! This is my first thread and I hope it isn't too silly! If we live in a multiverse as some cosmologists claim, is it possible there may be other universes with a different configeration that allows for the evolution of beings that are far superior to us in ability? Is it possible that these superior beings could create model universes of an inferior design that replicates worlds similar to ours with its own semi-intelligent little creatures? Wouldn't these cretures be justified in believing they live in a theistic universe that was created by an intelligent designer? Of course, I believe it is logically impossible for such superior creatures to possess the attributes of a perfect and eternal God, but I can envisage the less than perfect inhabitants of a more complex universe making crappy little imperfect worlds like the one we live in!

Note: I have aa slight vision problem and typing is very difficult for me. Please excuse any typing mistakes I may hae made.

TransfiniteSmile[/size]

Welcome.

No.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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07-03-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: Atheistic and Theistic Universes
Universe/Multiverse logically impossible because something can't come out of nothing.
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07-03-2015, 02:22 PM
RE: Atheistic and Theistic Universes
(07-03-2015 02:19 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  Universe/Multiverse logically impossible because something can't come out of nothing.

Yeah . Nothing can't come from nothing including your god.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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07-03-2015, 02:25 PM
RE: Atheistic and Theistic Universes
(07-03-2015 02:22 PM)Leo Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 02:19 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  Universe/Multiverse logically impossible because something can't come out of nothing.

Yeah . Nothing can't come from nothing including your god.
So universe can't exist anyway therefore universe can't be logically explained.
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07-03-2015, 02:37 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2015 02:40 PM by Brian37.)
RE: Atheistic and Theistic Universes
Not a fan of thought experiments. Fun for mental masturbation, but not much more. In science brainstorming is certainly required, but it is always based on prior established data and builds upon that on top of going through the riggers of testing, falsification, control groups and peer review.

QM is freaky enough by itself with our current knowledge to risk gap filling si fi woo. I will only say "I'll believe it when I see it".

I am not even a fan of some of the current claims that "all this" might be a giant simulation. I have no problem with the idea of 10 dimensions or even possible multi universes "bubble theory" as possibilities. I am even fine with the idea that "all this" came from nothing. Currently QM and science isn't favoring either or ruling out something or nothing. I do have a problem though with saying that their needs to be some sort of cognition for either. Just like Hawkins said "A god is not required" so why would even a "simulation" be needed to explain anything. It would still suffer the same problem with infinite regress as god claims do.

Finite or infinite, something or nothing prior, I would see a un caused process just like the seasons changing on this planet. It just would do, with no help and would not need any type of prime mover call it a god or "simulation". Our awareness is a blip, and any cognitive life would be a blip as well as part of a limited range just like we will never discover a sun in the universe the size of an entire galaxy.

So no, we are not the products of smarter beings. There is no cosmic scientist outside our universe using us as part of a giant computer program. It should not surprise us to find life elsewhere, but it would be subject to the same limits of resources and distance we are. That life might have a longer range but it would still be stuck locally like we are here.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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07-03-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Atheistic and Theistic Universes
(07-03-2015 02:25 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 02:22 PM)Leo Wrote:  Yeah . Nothing can't come from nothing including your god.
So universe can't exist anyway therefore universe can't be logically explained.

Fuck off troll.

OP: Of course possible. Anything's possible. Question of justification arises. For inhabitants of designed universe, unless they can *tell* is designed, and question of how is difficult one, cannot adopt belief that universe is designed or not unjustifiably. best can say is don't know.

For us in our universe don't know but so far no scientific investigation has revealed any evidence of something we could posit as designed. Those who seek for a designer must show some evidence of same, for the moment there is nothing to justify that belief. And we can tell that if currently well-verified scientific theories are correct then hypothetical designer hasn't monkeyed with the system in any obvious way *since* creation of universe (unless you count creation of monkeys via evolution as monkeying with the system).

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-03-2015, 02:49 PM
RE: Atheistic and Theistic Universes
Maybe everything equals nothing if something can only instantiate if it is accompanied by an anti-something in which the two cancel each other out such as happens with virtual particles emerging from vacuum fluctuations. Possibly, everything exists as binary opposites that preserve the conservation of nothingness. To give an example, all of the positive and negative numbers add up to zero even though they individually deviate from nothingness.
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07-03-2015, 03:02 PM
RE: Atheistic and Theistic Universes
If a superior being designed our universe, I would only give him a C- or D+ for his engineering project. Our universe is too sloppy and flawed to be the product of a skilled inventor!
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07-03-2015, 03:34 PM
RE: Atheistic and Theistic Universes
(07-03-2015 03:02 PM)Transfinite Wrote:  If a superior being designed our universe, I would only give him a C- or D+ for his engineering project. Our universe is too sloppy and flawed to be the product of a skilled inventor!

I agree, even if one skips the standard god crap, I don't even see "all this" as a product invented at all. I see frequently stories claiming this is a hologram only to go read that the actual scientists really were not calling it that. It is the same over sensationalizing people fell for with the NASA article about the warp drive being plausible. Many people jumped the gun and skipped the part where it said "mathematically on paper only, and would require all the energy in the universe to do".

Again whatever we don't currently know would only lead to when we do know, simply having a different understanding of a natural process. I hate gap filling with si fi woo as much as I do god of the gaps.

QM like I said is freaky enough without any type of gap filling.

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