Atheistic arguments
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29-05-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(29-05-2015 04:24 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:The agnostic does not simply say, "l do not know." He goes another step, and he says, with great emphasis, that you do not know. He insists that you are trading on the ignorance of others, and on the fear of others. He is not satisfied with saying that you do not know, -- he demonstrates that you do not know, and he drives you from the field of fact -- he drives you from the realm of reason -- he drives you from the light, into the darkness of conjecture -- into the world of dreams and shadows, and he compels you to say, at last, that your faith has no foundation in fact.
-- Robert Green Ingersoll


You can believe however much holy horseshit you like, pal. Ingersoll nailed your type over a century ago.

Funny, that. The other point of this post was to express how little atheism has the support of science.
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29-05-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(29-05-2015 02:18 PM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  Just curious what you all think.

God is dead. Killed himself a couple millennia ago. Hasn't been heard from since.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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29-05-2015, 04:35 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(29-05-2015 04:26 PM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  I'm not sure where to go with this discussion tbh, a few posters are asking me to present evidence that God exists, as if it's something I can just sum it up in a few lines.

What I can say is that the reasoning behind my faith rests on aggregating a large set of observations, which individually would all be dismissed by science as coincidences, and combine it with my understanding of philosophy and logic, and ground it all down with an understanding of science. Obviously, since faith in God clearly lies outside the realm of science, such faith can't be scientifically proven. But from where I stand, the evidence is overwhelming, making it all but obvious, if not scientific.

Mostly though, I guess the idea of a scientific conjecture of God has interested me for a while now, and I'm just wondering to what extend this would be possible.

So your answer is faith and personal experience then. Thanks for coming out.
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29-05-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(29-05-2015 04:26 PM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  Mostly though, I guess the idea of a scientific conjecture of God has interested me for a while now, and I'm just wondering to what extend this would be possible.
Majority of theists say God exists outside of space & time. Therefore, no science.

Now, if you're saying your god does not exist outside of spacetime then discussion may be possible.
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29-05-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(29-05-2015 04:26 PM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  What I can say is that the reasoning behind my faith rests on aggregating a large set of observations, which individually would all be dismissed by science as coincidences,

The plural of anecdote is not data. Coincidences happen and unless you can identify a pattern in the events that can be tested and replicated then there is nothing there to base belief on.

Quote:and combine it with my understanding of philosophy and logic, and ground it all down with an understanding of science.

Philosophy and logic are great tools but the output is only as valid as the input.

Quote:Obviously, since faith in God clearly lies outside the realm of science, such faith can't be scientifically proven.

People can, and do, have faith in all sorts of things and they can't all be true. In order to determine if any are you would need evidence to at least narrow down the possibilities. Faith itself is never a path to knowledge or truth.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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29-05-2015, 04:43 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(29-05-2015 04:30 PM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  Funny, that. The other point of this post was to express how little atheism has the support of science.

The existence of god has no scientific support. The existence of leprechauns has no scientific support. Unicorns? Nah.

You make an extraordinary claim you have to provide evidence.
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29-05-2015, 04:43 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(29-05-2015 04:30 PM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  
(29-05-2015 04:24 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  You can believe however much holy horseshit you like, pal. Ingersoll nailed your type over a century ago.

Funny, that. The other point of this post was to express how little atheism has the support of science.

Atheism is the lack of belief in gods, period.

What is this science you speak of that proves your god concept? Can you even define god?

If I see a magical flying pumpkin appear before me, should I say it's god? Should I say it's proof of a fairy godmother? Should I disregard any of those assertions until proof is given for one over the other or an entirely different explanation altogether?

What kind of history does the god explanation have for observable phenomenon? Why would it ever be a default explanation for anything?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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29-05-2015, 04:46 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(29-05-2015 04:26 PM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  I'm not sure where to go with this discussion tbh, a few posters are asking me to present evidence that God exists, as if it's something I can just sum it up in a few lines.

What I can say is that the reasoning behind my faith rests on aggregating a large set of observations, which individually would all be dismissed by science as coincidences, and combine it with my understanding of philosophy and logic, and ground it all down with an understanding of science. Obviously, since faith in God clearly lies outside the realm of science, such faith can't be scientifically proven. But from where I stand, the evidence is overwhelming, making it all but obvious, if not scientific.

Mostly though, I guess the idea of a scientific conjecture of God has interested me for a while now, and I'm just wondering to what extend this would be possible.

I am glad you have an interest in philosophy and logic. In keeping with that, how did you come to terms with some of the claims in the Bible such as God appearing as a burning bush, Jonah getting swallowed by a great fish and then surviving inside it for 3 days and 3 nights, people living to 900 years old, God killing flowers and grass by blowing on them, a body-less hand writing things on a wall...and so on?
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29-05-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
Quote:Funny, that. The other point of this post was to express how little atheism has the support of science.

We know that, dummy. Science is about what is real. Religion is about whatever fantasies you want to create for yourself. Have fun.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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29-05-2015, 06:07 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(29-05-2015 03:54 PM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  
(29-05-2015 03:23 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Gravity is easily proven, and doesn't require faith...god is not, and does require faith, as there is no evidence, if there was evidence it wouldnt require faith, it would just be fact.

My point was, I can't see gravity but have reasoned faith that "it's there" based on evidence. The evidence of God can't come completely from science, that much is a given. So I'm using a broader set of evidence, but evidence, logic and reasoning none-the-less. No one's suggesting that a reasoned faith in God ought to be easy.

Gravity is observable, testable and falsifiable. god is not, regardless of which god you choose.

Intriguing, tell me about this broader set of evidence, baffle me with your analysis, truly. I am open minded, help me understand your reasoning for believing that an invisible creative god dwelling in the unseen transcendental world exists.

As a thought exercise, do you also believe in bigfoot? if not why not?

Unlike the concept of god, which violates absolutely everything we know about almost every branch of science, the existence of bigfoot doesn't violate the laws of physics, doesn't violate the laws of chemistry, it just seems to violate some of what we know about biology.

Furthermore, unlike the concept of god, which is supported only by the copy of the translation of the copy of the translation of multiple layers of verbal hearsay by anonymous sources, the existence of bigfoot is supported by direct eyewitnesses alive today, with names, addresses, social security numbers, etc. You yourself can go and interview a bigfoot expert who has seen bigfoot multiple times, and he will share the first hand eyewitness testimony with you directly.

So again, why do you not also believe in bigfoot? It seems that if you were in the business of believing unlikely stuff and were gonna be consistent rather than biased, there are loads of claims which, though unlikely, are several orders of magnitude more probable than an invisible god…like bigfoot

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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