Atheistic arguments
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30-05-2015, 12:45 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2015 07:18 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atheistic arguments
"Claim: Science supports the idea that the universe came from nothing because random quantum fluctuations in empty space, a.k.a. nothing, allow the creation of an entire universe.
Problem #1: There are so many problems with this I don't know where to start. But certainly the one that stands out is that science has theories about the structure of empty space! In the history of human intellectual endeavors, if a hint of structure were found, what could cause us to call it "nothing"? In fact, science already has a term for this infamous nothing: quantum foam. In other words, a very much something. There is a tremendous game of semantics required to be able to peddle this idea that the universe came from nothing."

A lie. No one, let alone atheists. make that claim, and he can reference it in no atheist publication. No atheist says "a universe came from nothing". In fact it's meaningless. "Coming from" requires space-time ALREADY in place. There is no such things as "nothingness" in this universe. What may or may not exist apart from this universe is unknown. There is an "idea" of "nothingness". There is at the present no evidence for that idea, just as there is no evidence for the idea of sparkly pink unicorns, or a god.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-05-2015, 12:53 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
The problem is hddd doesn't gave a clue about science and is making thing up that he thinks is science.

After repeatedly being told be has the science wrong continues to assert he is right. The never ending Mary go round
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30-05-2015, 01:21 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2015 07:04 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Atheistic arguments
(30-05-2015 10:07 AM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  
(30-05-2015 05:42 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Expect derision when you make baseless posits lacking substantiation.

So is that how you treat people you meet face-to-face when, in your opinion, they make baseless posits lacking substantiation? When you meet someone at a cafe for example?

The OP pointed out how atheist positions do not have the support of science since science can't support existential arguments, and so logically, when we're talking about existential questions, they are as much conjecture as their religious counterparts. That being my perspective, you're in the same position as me as far as scientific support is concerned; making baseless posits lacking scientific substantiation.

And then there are these posters writing sob stories about how I've dehumanized atheists in my OP. The hypocrisy is a bit overwhelming here.

Yes, if someone came up to me in a cafe, we struck up idle conversation and suddenly he leans in and asks..."have you heard the great news?" I reply "no, what"...and he says with conviction, "At midnight tonight the invisible great pumpkin is going to rise, and if we eat pumpkin pie at the exact stroke of midnight, we will have our every wish granted!".....I would laugh out loud and say, "you are an idiot" and walk away......

No, I am not in the same position as you. I am on the side of reason, logic and intelligence who forms opinions of the world around him based on empirical evidence and facts. You seem to be dancing around in the transcendental plane while implying you have deciphered the meaning of god by observing the world around you.

When it comes to standard religious institutions, rather than yet another strain of personal delusion, their dogma and holy scriptures can be systematically dismantled, their miracle stories debunked and the basis of their religion eviscerated, and science assists in a lot of that...

So my posits are not baseless, as i can prove them, such as...

No one who ever wrote of jesus actually knew him

The synoptic gospels were not written by mark, Luke, matthew or John.

The major miracles of the bible never happened, ...i.e the exodus, resurrection, global flood, ark....these posits of mine CAN be substantiated and I do so on a regular basis, stick around, i will teach you.

But no wait....you aren't a member of the one of 40,000 strains of christianity, which is my specialty, you reside in a church of one...yourself, or so I have been led to believe thus far as you play peekaboo with what the fuck your worldview is.

I can, and shall substantiate my assertions....can you substantiate yours is the real question....

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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30-05-2015, 01:52 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
We have proof here people.

Proof that arguing with someone whose thought process is fundamentally flawed is a waste of time.

Dude just came in here, vomited his thoughts onto the table on the false assumption that his brain was functioning properly.
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30-05-2015, 04:31 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
I like to put my objection (which still hasn't been answered) in the form of code.

Create object="God"
attributes = [agency, creativity, ? ]
abilities = [ ? ]
/end object

This is always all I can get. And my objection is that the object is insufficiently defined. All we have is this and it is too broad. What is to stop me from saying my dog is God? Or some computers? Bacteria? Or my 11-year old sister?

You need to define your terms better. You claim that your god is a "logical conclusion" that you came to. I call bull. Let me guess, your god exists outside of space and time. Do you realize this means your god DOES NOT EXIST in this universe since he is necessarily outside of it? But he does sometimes touch this universe, right? Well then you must be able to define him as he manifests in this universe, right? But of course you still won't do that. Because I'm willing to bet that your god is logically impossible and as such cannot exist.

So you come here, set up strawmen to knock down, and then when confronted claim you want to talk about the existential problems of the universe. I'm willing to discuss the issues of meaning, mortality, and morality (he he, alliteration is fun), but that isn't what your OP was addressing. You still haven't talked about why you find god a compelling answer to anything, and I doubt you will.
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30-05-2015, 04:50 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(30-05-2015 10:18 AM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  
(30-05-2015 10:12 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's why the practical and more openly honest position is one of not knowing. And not making assertive claims to one regard.

Yes, from your perspective, I'm sure that seems like the logical way to go. From my perspective, you're making negative claims that amount to absurdity, since the existence of God is a natural, logical conclusion to me.

Gee, you're not too fucking arrogant. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-05-2015, 05:16 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2015 06:27 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Atheistic arguments
(30-05-2015 10:18 AM)hddd12345678910 Wrote:  From my perspective, you're making negative claims that amount to absurdity, since the existence of God is a natural, logical conclusion to me.

Bah, your logic is weak and frail. Come back to me when you can provide a logical argument as proof of your own existence and then maybe we can talk about the existence of your god.

#sigh
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30-05-2015, 06:38 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(30-05-2015 10:05 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ...
Actually they don't, but you've been indoctrinated to think in those terms. So you admit you *need* a mental answer, and because of that you assign functions to that god you have no other answer for. (It's called the "god of the gaps", and you have a lots of big gaps). You *need* (psychologically) a "place-holder" for the answers, (as you suffer from low ambiguity tolerance and high cognitive closure needs). Nothing "logically" leads to the gods, (as there is no coherent definition of one, or one that makes any sense). The fact that innocent children suffer and die is evidence there is no loving god directing anything. "Or what have yous" indeed.

Logic is necessary, but not sufficient. There are many internally logically consistent systems that are 100 % logically correct, yet do not exist. Logic is not enough. Evidence is required. There is no evidence for any god, or any "what have yous".

I gotta say, Buckster, I love it when you give reasoned answers like this without the sniping.

I'm not saying that you haven't mastered sniping, I'm just saying ... this reminds me of when I first joined TTA and I avidly read all your posts with a childish thirst for knowledge.

You're at your best when you're calmly and rationally helping thickies, like me.

Thank you.

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30-05-2015, 07:05 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
After reviewing all the zero evidence for the existence of a god, you concluded there was a god.

I reviewed the same evidence and concluded that you owe $40 bucks.

Seems accurate

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-05-2015, 08:25 PM
RE: Atheistic arguments
(30-05-2015 04:31 PM)natachan Wrote:  I like to put my objection (which still hasn't been answered) in the form of code.

Create object="God"
attributes = [agency, creativity, ? ]
abilities = [ ? ]
/end object

This is always all I can get. And my objection is that the object is insufficiently defined. All we have is this and it is too broad. What is to stop me from saying my dog is God? Or some computers? Bacteria? Or my 11-year old sister?

You need to define your terms better. You claim that your god is a "logical conclusion" that you came to. I call bull. Let me guess, your god exists outside of space and time. Do you realize this means your god DOES NOT EXIST in this universe since he is necessarily outside of it? But he does sometimes touch this universe, right? Well then you must be able to define him as he manifests in this universe, right? But of course you still won't do that. Because I'm willing to bet that your god is logically impossible and as such cannot exist.

So you come here, set up strawmen to knock down, and then when confronted claim you want to talk about the existential problems of the universe. I'm willing to discuss the issues of meaning, mortality, and morality (he he, alliteration is fun), but that isn't what your OP was addressing. You still haven't talked about why you find god a compelling answer to anything, and I doubt you will.

With all this talk about strawmen this and strawmen that, someone of you had some trouble sticking to the topic. Did I make any positive assertions about the existence of God in my OP? That's just not what I do, I don't go to online forums and try and convince people that God exists. Meet me in person and I might just conjure up the energy for it.

If anyone's that interested in what other evidence I'm referring to, feel free to search "ourbeacon qxp" on google at your own convenience. Like I said, I was just curious what you all thought about this, so there's that.
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