Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
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21-12-2013, 11:26 PM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2013 11:37 PM by λάθε βιώσας.)
Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
I often times ask myself that if I am to choose a solid philosophical belief system or ideal instead of bouncing all about the place over truly the only 3 outlooks (Theism, Agnostic, Atheism) that I need to place criteria on all 3 before I make a decision. This thread will attempt to discover and determine what it is that philosophical atheism would accept as proof...

When it comes to my atheistic side I can't quite define what it is I would accept as evidence of God (or) gods and theistic creation.

I would like to get some advanced ideals from solid atheists on this matter... anyone can chime in of course but I prefer those who are rooted solid in one ideology or the other.

I am kind of in limbo but consider myself all 3 ideologies... if I am allowed to use it to describe my thoughts? I like them all, and often times one day to the next.

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21-12-2013, 11:35 PM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(21-12-2013 11:26 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  I often times ask myself that if I am to choose a solid philosophical belief system or ideal instead of bouncing all about the place over truly the only 3 outlooks (Theism, Agnostic, Atheism) that I need to place criteria on all 3 before I make a decision. This thread will attempt to discover and determine what it is philosophical atheism would accept as proof...

Proof of what specifically? That some deity exists? That a specific deity exists? I'm not splitting hairs to be difficult the last question introduces problems that the second doesn't.
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21-12-2013, 11:35 PM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(21-12-2013 11:26 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  I often times ask myself that if I am to choose a solid philosophical belief system or idea instead of bouncing all about the place over truly the only 3 outlooks (Theism, Agnostic, Atheism) that I need to place criteria on all 3 before I make a decision.

When it comes to my atheistic side I can't quite define what it is I would accept as evidence of God (or) gods and theistic creation.

I would like to get some advanced ideals from solid atheists on this matter... anyone can chime in of course but I prefer those who are rooted solid in one ideology or the other.

I am kind of in limbo... if I am allowed to use it to describe my thoughts?

Describe all you want. We encourage people to speak their minds. Not sure what you mean by "Atheistic side" since atheism is a lack of belief in god. Most people either hold a belief or do not, or some say they cannot.

So I can't say... "My lack of beliefish side of me that lacks belief as compared to the part of me that sorta believes."

More questions would stem... such as:

"What do you sort of not believe in as compared to sorta believe in?"
"What is it exactly that you do believe?"

Of course, the question you pose is interesting. What would someone accept as evidence of a god or god. What would a god or god even be? Is it just a "thing" or a "being" or is it a tangible thing that can be seen and has influence on natural things. Etc... I find it interesting that people of so many various faiths have different definitions. Some will tell you it's a being outside time and space. Others will tell you it's something you can't see that guides us in our physical world in a "spiritual way" while the definitions of others are everything from "nature" to "the universe" etc etc....

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21-12-2013, 11:42 PM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
God could clench the issue noisily in his favor. Either he can't, in which case he is not omnipotent and does not fit our definition of god, or he won't. If he won't then there is no evidence and his existence becomes hard to argue.
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21-12-2013, 11:43 PM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
it would probably be best if we started of by stating our philosophy?

in short, today I am agnostic and wondering what I would require or what I am looking for when others say God or Creation.

I fall back to atheism alot, often times when I get pissed about what to do with knowledge acquired or when I see what theists would call (evil) in the world.

I more often do not know what I am looking for.

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21-12-2013, 11:52 PM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
λάθε βιώσας.


"Live hidden"


Why are you hiding?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-12-2013, 12:02 AM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2013 12:20 AM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(21-12-2013 11:42 PM)natachan Wrote:  God could clench the issue noisily in his favor. Either he can't, in which case he is not omnipotent and does not fit our definition of god, or he won't. If he won't then there is no evidence and his existence becomes hard to argue.

in favor of the Theists in general, my search for knowledge or truth and fact has discovered that the existence of God can be determined mathematically, and with an equation which is considered by many the "crown jewel" of physics.

Richard Feynman is one of the top ten theoretical physicist to have ever lived, in 1999 there was a poll of 130 of the worlds leading scientists and Richard made the top ten.

the theorem...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonhard_Euler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_identity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_formula#History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integration...7s_formula

e^(iπ) + 1 = 0

"A statement attributed to Pierre-Simon Laplace expresses Euler's influence on mathematics: "Read Euler, he is the master of us all." (-1999)


this has roots in sacred geometry dating back to before Pythagoras I am sure, but our western philosophy basically stops at the Greek.

this theory is used in application.

so if this theory proves God and the answer is yes, and it is the basis and the root of our mathematics, then does that mean God is a number?

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22-12-2013, 12:05 AM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2013 12:27 AM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
what am I looking for? some have found it, others say it does not exist...

as Faith No More would put it -- What is It?

a fiery-eyed flying human with a sword coming out of its mouth?

or a flying teapot with an anti-gravitational device?

or a number or a symbol?

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22-12-2013, 12:28 AM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(21-12-2013 11:26 PM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  ... truly the only 3 outlooks (Theism, Agnostic, Atheism)...

Really? THAT unimaginative, eh?



Quote: that I need to place criteria on all 3 before I make a decision. This thread will attempt to discover and determine what it is that philosophical atheism would accept as proof...

...and just what is "philosophical atheism"?


...and BTW the answer is easy: EVIDENCE.

And keep in mind that an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence to convince.


GO.


Quote:When it comes to my atheistic side I can't quite define what it is I would accept as evidence of God (or) gods and theistic creation.

Why is that? Frankly, this sounds quite disingenuous. What is evidence, really? It's clear enough. Seems like you are trying to quibble and equivocate.

Quote:I would like to get some advanced ideals from solid atheists on this matter...

What does that even mean? Just look in a dictionary and see what the definition of evidence is.


Quote:anyone can chime in of course but I prefer those who are rooted solid in one ideology or the other.

Ideology? Who needs an ideology, really? The only thing any of us here have in common is that we don't believe in superstitious fairy tales. Isn't that enough?

Quote:I am kind of in limbo but consider myself all 3 ideologies... if I am allowed to use it to describe my thoughts? I like them all, and often times one day to the next.

I am not so sure that you are being truthful here. Please clarify.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-12-2013, 12:29 AM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(22-12-2013 12:02 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  
(21-12-2013 11:42 PM)natachan Wrote:  God could clench the issue noisily in his favor. Either he can't, in which case he is not omnipotent and does not fit our definition of god, or he won't. If he won't then there is no evidence and his existence becomes hard to argue.

in favor of the Theists in general, my search for knowledge or truth and fact has discovered that the existence of God can be determined mathematically, and with an equation which is considered by many the "crown jewel" of physics.

Richard Feynman is one of the top ten theoretical physicist to have ever lived, in 1999 there was a poll of 130 of the worlds leading scientists and Richard made the top ten.

the theorem...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonhard_Euler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_identity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_formula#History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integration...7s_formula

"A statement attributed to Pierre-Simon Laplace expresses Euler's influence on mathematics: "Read Euler, he is the master of us all." (-1999)


this has roots in sacred geometry dating back to before Pythagoras I am sure, but our western philosophy basically stops at the Greek.

this theory is used in application.

so if this theory proves God and the answer is yes, and it is the basis and the root of our mathematics, then does that mean God is a number?

Irrespective of the elegance of mathematics and science a god, roughly in keeping with general Christian criteria, could well transcend these systems, utilizing them for experimental purposes for 'His' entertainment or other transcendental purpose beyond our current grasp. Sure, an omniscient God would have no need for experimentation,if omniscience exists. An ever evolving cosmic consciousness may be far beyond our puny notions relating to a static perfection, as well as the notion of a total cosmic knowledge.
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