Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
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22-12-2013, 01:41 AM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(22-12-2013 01:34 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  
(22-12-2013 01:25 AM)natachan Wrote:  I think you need to define god before you can determine if god exists. You need to attach a specific meaning to the word before we can use it coherently.

I can certainly make a teapot fly...

is this what is required?

Evasive bullshit crawfishing much?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-12-2013, 01:52 AM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2013 02:00 AM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(22-12-2013 01:39 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-12-2013 01:22 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  In eastern philosophy, which is a different way of understanding things, matter itself has life and existence as we would call it.

objects have spirits and even a stone has a soul.

You really need to provide a citation for that bullshit.

no need to be closed minded, am I correct in assuming we're all adults here?

You can research eastern philosophy which is wholly different than our own and has coexisted with our own, and is compatible with our own.

I am not here to teach or preach... I am here to seek.

if you are an atheists can you enlighten me today?

what is proof of God?

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22-12-2013, 01:57 AM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
First define what you mean by god. Energy? Consciousness? The set of laws that govern the universe? A supernatural intelligence? What are its qualities?

Tell me what you mean and I'll tell you, specifically, the proof I would need.
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22-12-2013, 02:01 AM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(22-12-2013 01:57 AM)natachan Wrote:  First define what you mean by god. Energy? Consciousness? The set of laws that govern the universe? A supernatural intelligence? What are its qualities?

Tell me what you mean and I'll tell you, specifically, the proof I would need.

I have no definition, I practice no religion and I am non-religious.

I seek a definition from someone who does not believe in theism.

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22-12-2013, 02:05 AM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2013 02:20 AM by BlackMason.)
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
For the OP: The threshold of evidence is elevated to match the claim. If you said you had 5 bucks in your pocket I'd take your word for it. It's a very low level claim and having 5 bucks is a relatively common thing. Your word would be sufficient. If, on the other hand, you claimed you had 20 grand in your pocket things would be different. Showing me a thick bundle of money wouldn't be enough. I'd say give it to me so I can count it. 20 grand is a much larger claim that is subjected to a much higher standard of evidence. What level of claim do you think a god claim is and what level of evidence is required?

I'll give you a clue: Go onto youtube and search out LeBron James and Blake Griffin dunk highlights. That's the level of evidence that's required. Slam dunk evidence. Evidence that when viewed by a rational person they will be compelled to believe. This evidence hasn't been furnished. We know this because the whole world would either be christian worshipping Jesus, muslim worshipping Allah, Hindu worshipping Krishna and pals etc.

So until such evidence is forth coming I'm gonna stick to atheism.

I'll concede that the rational position is agnostic but I'm no fence sitter. To illustrate I'll refer to a point made by Chippy. Even if a god appeared before you it would still be near impossible to ascertain it's true identity. It could be your god or it could be a malevolent demon assuming the appearance of your god.

Oh before I forget, that equation proving god is shit.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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22-12-2013, 02:13 AM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2013 02:19 AM by λάθε βιώσας.)
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
I believe in Mod, nothing more...

Mod has acknowledged my existence and Mod has spoken to me.

I can't see Mod, but I know Mod is real.

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22-12-2013, 02:26 AM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
God in the way I have ever encountered it has always been too vague a concept to do anything useful with.

'He's an invisible man who lives in the sky who gets very angry if you don't believe in his existence (which he refuses to offer any tangible proof of)'.

The thing is that bracketed part was only added later, a lot of things *are* cited as tangible proof of this silly God, or used to be. It used to be that if you went off to war and got shafted hard by the enemy, people tended to assume you hadn't done your sacrificing right. Or if you were walking along and suddenly there was an earthquake and you got swallowed in a crevasse then people would say 'Oh, he must have been a very sinful man, that's why God decided to fuck him hard and kill him in a nasty way'. Even today, New York gets hit by a hurricane and people say 'Jesus Fuck, God's an angry invisible man, must be all those gays and lesbians'.

As scientific understanding advances, it becomes less plausible to attribute these things to some intelligent angry guy, because we can *predict* them. We know that wars are won or lost basically according to the principles of good ol' Sun Tzu. I know that where I live is at very low risk of earthquakes because I am far from a tectonic plate boundary. A lightning conductor will disperse the attentions of the deity in a safe manner.

Our horizons have expanded too. We now know that the universe is *huge*. Far far bigger than anyone really thought in the far past when books like the Bible and the Quran were written. It seems silly to think of a personal God who hides away and controls people's lives - or at least, if such an entity existed on Earth it would be just a parasite, a low-level beast controlling humans via 'magic'. The Creator of the incredibly vast universe would surely not be troubled over petty things that ape-descendants got up to in some random corner of the universe.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-12-2013, 02:31 AM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2013 03:21 AM by Chippy.)
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(22-12-2013 01:52 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  if you are an atheists can you enlighten me today?

what is proof of God?

Before that can be answered you need to define God. Which God do you have in mind? The generic god of philosophers? Yahweh? Trinity? Allah?

That isn't a problem for atheists, it is a problem for adherents of a specific religion that exclude all gods but their own.

Before we can determine what counts as evidence for the existence of something we need to know the attributes of that thing.

If there isn't even universal agreement on the attributes of God then that is a problem for the religious and that counts against theism.
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22-12-2013, 02:42 AM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(22-12-2013 01:11 AM)λάθε βιώσας Wrote:  a statue of Buddha is a deity and the statues exist...

solved?

[Image: great_buddha_statue.jpg]

Deities are depicted in a variety of forms, but are also frequently expressed as having human form.

Buddhism is known as an atheistic religion because it has no gods. Buddha is not a deity.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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22-12-2013, 02:44 AM
RE: Atheistic evidence or criteria for proof of God
(22-12-2013 02:26 AM)morondog Wrote:  God in the way I have ever encountered it has always been too vague a concept to do anything useful with.

'He's an invisible man who lives in the sky who gets very angry if you don't believe in his existence (which he refuses to offer any tangible proof of)'.

ok this is a little far fetched, are you an atheist?

so God is an invisible man?

I'm sure I seen this on a movie like LOTR or something...

I find that to be a little odd, I dare to say delusional...

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