Atheists, Agnostics and many more
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20-08-2010, 11:41 AM
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
Well, I have to agree with Stark Raving here. This has turned from a debate into an argument.

Ghost, I propose that we let the subject drop. Both of us have made our points long since, and now it is nothing more than an internet shouting match (which is one of the most pathetic spectacles on the planet). Neither of us is doing any more than getting ourselves worked up.

I don't agree with you, and I still think that you are denying facts, but in the interest of keeping this from devolving into nothing but an e-posturing match, I say that we break it off. This forum benefits from intellectual debate, and we're not doing that any more.

In this area, I think that we will have to agree to disagree, so... shake?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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20-08-2010, 02:35 PM
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
About this whole motivation thing, even if ive got something wrong and i have a strong feeling that i got:
Does there have to be any other motivation/reason/purpose for facing and having conversations with people with different worldviews, than ''challenging'' your own worldview by communicating with persons with a different view?

Can someone briefly explain this whole motivation thing to me, Ive read some posts from the older Ghost threads, but my brain is not functioning well right now (Ive been thinking and reading too much lately as a sceptic member of a paranormal blog and its user forum), I gotta get some sleep.

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21-08-2010, 12:25 AM
 
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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21-08-2010, 05:15 AM
 
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
hiiiiiiiiiiiii
i am new
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21-08-2010, 11:52 AM
 
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
(21-08-2010 05:15 AM)binny84 Wrote:  hiiiiiiiiiiiii
i am new

Isn't there any way to stop these bots? I swear that this forum has the worse situation with bots I have ever seen.
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21-08-2010, 01:01 PM
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
That would be because we have no moderators, and the administrator - as far as I know - hasn't been on this forum since the first few days after I joined (which was only a few weeks after the forum was created). No one's been able to get a hold of them. If we could, then we'd ask for either the admin to return to the forum, as it's growing rapidly, or at the very least the promotion of someone to moderator.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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23-08-2010, 08:52 PM
 
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
This discussion is reminiscent of 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin'.
Anyone else here see the divergent threads of personality? Some like denotations... 'atheist means not theist'.... with all the tidy little categories forged by an eloquently beautiful concrete definition. Some fear the connotation of the words and therefore resist the power that words have to categorize.

It is a mistake to ignore connotation in a discussion of meaning. Words are not just tools to categorize. In the most technical sense, the denotation is the essence of the word. But words have power. Meaning is more than a category. Meaning is fluid. As difficult as it is for a scientist to accept, one cannot control the connotation of a word.

It is also a bit silly to feel trapped by someone else's definition. I am reminded of gay men who are on the 'bi now gay later plan'. It's really ok to be called an agnostic atheist. You are not trapped by a word. You have lots of rights and one of them is really neat: you can change your mind. You can find nuance.

Now, how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?
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23-08-2010, 11:59 PM
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
Quote:Now, how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?
0, there are no angels. But I got your point, I just had to have some morning intercourse with comma.

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24-08-2010, 08:05 AM
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
Quote:I just had to have some morning intercourse with comma.

I'm going to assume this is just a case of English not being your first language. Otherwise, I'll just have to assume that your day is off to a much better start than my day. Cool

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24-08-2010, 08:11 AM
RE: Atheists, Agnostics and many more
(23-08-2010 08:52 PM)dtwpuck Wrote:  It is a mistake to ignore connotation in a discussion of meaning.

Not in all circumstances, and I would contend that this is one of those where you should. As I said to Ghost, I am simply talking about the concrete definitions of the words, because it irks me to see people abuse them in philosophical discussion.

Philosophy often devolves into meaningless rambling wherein neither side can make any progress whatsoever with the other simply because both participants are using the same word to mean different things. Definitions are of vital importance. Connotation may matter in other situations, but in this case, we are, as it were, examining the words in a vacuum.

Quote:Words are not just tools to categorize.

But they are tools to categorize. To deny this is idiotic, and to reject their power to categorize on the basis of not liking the connotations of that category is also. Whether or not you like the connotations, you are a part of one of those categories.

Quote:As difficult as it is for a scientist to accept, one cannot control the connotation of a word.

I never said you could.

Quote:It is also a bit silly to feel trapped by someone else's definition. I am reminded of gay men who are on the 'bi now gay later plan'. It's really ok to be called an agnostic atheist.

That's what I was trying to explain above.

EDIT: By the way, welcome to TTAF!

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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