Atheists And The Moon
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15-05-2013, 09:28 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
Quote:No one needs to shift the burden of proof onto you. The burden is on anyone making an assertion. Can you produce these eyewitnesses? Do you know how weak an eyewitness testimony is in a criminal trial? How do "prophecies" count as evidence? You "weren't there" either. I take the word of biologists, geologists, and physicists over that of theologians and "prophets" any day of the week. This isn't because I know both science and theology through and through, but because science is clearly the more useful source of information about the physical world and that's a demonstrable fact.

Would you count archaeologists and historians as scientifically rigorous also? (Especially, of course archaeologists).

They confirm facts (outside the Bible) that helps us have a reasonable understanding of prophecy inside the Bible. For example, we can confirm Daniel's conditions for counting 483 360-day years to "Messiah being cut off" outside the Bible, and then see Jesus crucified when He was, at a time that secular scholars affirm as true.

Eyewitness testimony is considered weak or fallible in a criminal trial, yes. However, the New Testament is one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence. You make it sound like three passerby with bad eyesight seeing a car accident for a few seconds. Some of these eyewitnesses grew up as close relations of Jesus and then committed over three years to following Him daily as disciples/mentees.

The same goes times four or five for the Old Testament--it represents in its historical sections eyewitnesses providing documentary evidence. Bear in mind further that the eyewitnesses swear oaths in the name of God as to testifying, the same way that we ask witnesses to swear against perjury with a God oath or other solemn oath. Thanks.
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15-05-2013, 09:41 AM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2013 12:51 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(15-05-2013 09:28 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:No one needs to shift the burden of proof onto you. The burden is on anyone making an assertion. Can you produce these eyewitnesses? Do you know how weak an eyewitness testimony is in a criminal trial? How do "prophecies" count as evidence? You "weren't there" either. I take the word of biologists, geologists, and physicists over that of theologians and "prophets" any day of the week. This isn't because I know both science and theology through and through, but because science is clearly the more useful source of information about the physical world and that's a demonstrable fact.

Would you count archaeologists and historians as scientifically rigorous also? (Especially, of course archaeologists).

They confirm facts (outside the Bible) that helps us have a reasonable understanding of prophecy inside the Bible. For example, we can confirm Daniel's conditions for counting 483 360-day years to "Messiah being cut off" outside the Bible, and then see Jesus crucified when He was, at a time that secular scholars affirm as true.

Eyewitness testimony is considered weak or fallible in a criminal trial, yes. However, the New Testament is one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence. You make it sound like three passerby with bad eyesight seeing a car accident for a few seconds. Some of these eyewitnesses grew up as close relations of Jesus and then committed over three years to following Him daily as disciples/mentees.

The same goes times four or five for the Old Testament--it represents in its historical sections eyewitnesses providing documentary evidence. Bear in mind further that the eyewitnesses swear oaths in the name of God as to testifying, the same way that we ask witnesses to swear against perjury with a God oath or other solemn oath. Thanks.

Circular. The Bible is not true because the Bible says it's true. You need EXTERNAL evidence. Let's see it.

The date. Are you finally going to give us that DATE you keep telling us you have ?
Or are you just bs'ing again ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-05-2013, 12:49 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
I am thinking about starting a new religion. It's seed will start to take root in a decade or two. In 2000 years it will be gigantic, with preachers and houses of worship with retractable roofs (I'll explain).

It begins when a person tells me that he knows someone who has talked to a group of UFO abuductees. According to the man who actually did the conversing with the abudctees, UFOs have visited earth and are looking down on earth from outer space. These extraterrestrials have the technology to hear our thoughts and see and record the actions of each of us. When we die, these extraterrestrials have the ability to take our consciousness and send it to a kind of paradise, or to a hell, depending on our thoughts and/or actions. According to the man who talked to these UFO abductees, the extraterrestrials who are out there somewhere in outer space beyond the earth's atmosphere, also want us to praise them by looking overhead daily and speaking our gratefulness up beyond the sky, into outer space.

Anyway, what happens is that I write all of this down in a book, self-publish it, and distribute it. I call the book Our Benefactors Beyond The Sky or something. A few people read it, it gets passed around and republished, and eventually it becomes accepted as factual, although obviously faith is required. Over the centuries it becomes a powerful book. Houses of gratitude are constructed with retractile roofs so that the grateful can express their thanks directly to the sky overhead. Meanwhile, countless individuals are certain they can can actual feel the extraterrestrials penetrating their minds and reading their thoughts. And it all happens because I write a book full of highly dubious second-hand accounts of alleged UFO abductees.
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15-05-2013, 12:52 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(15-05-2013 12:49 PM)Katiegal Wrote:  I am thinking about starting a new religion. It's seed will start to take root in a decade or two. In 2000 years it will be gigantic, with preachers and houses of worship with retractable roofs (I'll explain).

It begins when a person tells me that he knows someone who has talked to a group of UFO abuductees. According to the man who actually did the conversing with the abudctees, UFOs have visited earth and are looking down on earth from outer space. These extraterrestrials have the technology to hear our thoughts and see and record the actions of each of us. When we die, these extraterrestrials have the ability to take our consciousness and send it to a kind of paradise, or to a hell, depending on our thoughts and/or actions. According to the man who talked to these UFO abductees, the extraterrestrials who are out there somewhere in outer space beyond the earth's atmosphere, also want us to praise them by looking overhead daily and speaking our gratefulness up beyond the sky, into outer space.

Anyway, what happens is that I write all of this down in a book, self-publish it, and distribute it. I call the book Our Benefactors Beyond The Sky or something. A few people read it, it gets passed around and republished, and eventually it becomes accepted as factual, although obviously faith is required. Over the centuries it becomes a powerful book. Houses of gratitude are constructed with retractile roofs so that the grateful can express their thanks directly to the sky overhead. Meanwhile, countless individuals are certain they can can actual feel the extraterrestrials penetrating their minds and reading their thoughts. And it all happens because I write a book full of highly dubious second-hand accounts of alleged UFO abductees.

Be sure and get tax exempt status. You will end up with more jags and $$ that way.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-05-2013, 01:25 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(15-05-2013 12:49 PM)Katiegal Wrote:  I am thinking about starting a new religion. It's seed will start to take root in a decade or two. In 2000 years it will be gigantic, with preachers and houses of worship with retractable roofs (I'll explain).

It begins when a person tells me that he knows someone who has talked to a group of UFO abuductees. According to the man who actually did the conversing with the abudctees, UFOs have visited earth and are looking down on earth from outer space. These extraterrestrials have the technology to hear our thoughts and see and record the actions of each of us. When we die, these extraterrestrials have the ability to take our consciousness and send it to a kind of paradise, or to a hell, depending on our thoughts and/or actions. According to the man who talked to these UFO abductees, the extraterrestrials who are out there somewhere in outer space beyond the earth's atmosphere, also want us to praise them by looking overhead daily and speaking our gratefulness up beyond the sky, into outer space.

Anyway, what happens is that I write all of this down in a book, self-publish it, and distribute it. I call the book Our Benefactors Beyond The Sky or something. A few people read it, it gets passed around and republished, and eventually it becomes accepted as factual, although obviously faith is required. Over the centuries it becomes a powerful book. Houses of gratitude are constructed with retractile roofs so that the grateful can express their thanks directly to the sky overhead. Meanwhile, countless individuals are certain they can can actual feel the extraterrestrials penetrating their minds and reading their thoughts. And it all happens because I write a book full of highly dubious second-hand accounts of alleged UFO abductees.

That sounds legit. If you have at least "one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence" I'll definitely show up.

BTW: You should read Valis.

"That's not the proof I want."
"You'll have such proof as exists. You are the only one responsible for your own wants."
- Isaac Asimov, I, Robot
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15-05-2013, 01:30 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(03-05-2013 07:05 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  [quote]So you have to ask the atheist: "Richard Dawkins, why do you work so hard? Why do you write so many books? They're all going to be burned up. Why do you struggle to stay alive a little longer so that you can pen a few more words to the glory of the molecules?"
I once saw an interview with Richrad Dawkins. I was astounded by his sincere hatred for a god he didn't even believe existed. I was assuming it was because of all the atrocities commited in His Name. But then he said, that he was open to the possiblity of ither gods but not the one in scripture seen in the Old Testament. I don't even think he's Jewish.
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15-05-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon

"That's not the proof I want."
"You'll have such proof as exists. You are the only one responsible for your own wants."
- Isaac Asimov, I, Robot
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15-05-2013, 04:01 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-05-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(15-05-2013 09:28 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:No one needs to shift the burden of proof onto you. The burden is on anyone making an assertion. Can you produce these eyewitnesses? Do you know how weak an eyewitness testimony is in a criminal trial? How do "prophecies" count as evidence? You "weren't there" either. I take the word of biologists, geologists, and physicists over that of theologians and "prophets" any day of the week. This isn't because I know both science and theology through and through, but because science is clearly the more useful source of information about the physical world and that's a demonstrable fact.

Would you count archaeologists and historians as scientifically rigorous also? (Especially, of course archaeologists).

They confirm facts (outside the Bible) that helps us have a reasonable understanding of prophecy inside the Bible. For example, we can confirm Daniel's conditions for counting 483 360-day years to "Messiah being cut off" outside the Bible, and then see Jesus crucified when He was, at a time that secular scholars affirm as true.

Eyewitness testimony is considered weak or fallible in a criminal trial, yes. However, the New Testament is one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence. You make it sound like three passerby with bad eyesight seeing a car accident for a few seconds. Some of these eyewitnesses grew up as close relations of Jesus and then committed over three years to following Him daily as disciples/mentees.

The same goes times four or five for the Old Testament--it represents in its historical sections eyewitnesses providing documentary evidence. Bear in mind further that the eyewitnesses swear oaths in the name of God as to testifying, the same way that we ask witnesses to swear against perjury with a God oath or other solemn oath. Thanks.

So...no debate then? Wouldn't Jeebus be disappointed you're not willing to spread his message?
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15-05-2013, 04:11 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(15-05-2013 12:49 PM)Katiegal Wrote:  I am thinking about starting a new religion. It's seed will start to take root in a decade or two. In 2000 years it will be gigantic, with preachers and houses of worship with retractable roofs (I'll explain).

It begins when a person tells me that he knows someone who has talked to a group of UFO abuductees. According to the man who actually did the conversing with the abudctees, UFOs have visited earth and are looking down on earth from outer space. These extraterrestrials have the technology to hear our thoughts and see and record the actions of each of us. When we die, these extraterrestrials have the ability to take our consciousness and send it to a kind of paradise, or to a hell, depending on our thoughts and/or actions. According to the man who talked to these UFO abductees, the extraterrestrials who are out there somewhere in outer space beyond the earth's atmosphere, also want us to praise them by looking overhead daily and speaking our gratefulness up beyond the sky, into outer space.

Anyway, what happens is that I write all of this down in a book, self-publish it, and distribute it. I call the book Our Benefactors Beyond The Sky or something. A few people read it, it gets passed around and republished, and eventually it becomes accepted as factual, although obviously faith is required. Over the centuries it becomes a powerful book. Houses of gratitude are constructed with retractile roofs so that the grateful can express their thanks directly to the sky overhead. Meanwhile, countless individuals are certain they can can actual feel the extraterrestrials penetrating their minds and reading their thoughts. And it all happens because I write a book full of highly dubious second-hand accounts of alleged UFO abductees.

Don't forget to invent a class of people called priests to promote and get income from the bullshit. Make sure they're well connected to kings and governments so as to control the people.
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