Atheists And The Moon
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16-05-2013, 12:21 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2013 01:10 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(15-05-2013 09:28 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:No one needs to shift the burden of proof onto you. The burden is on anyone making an assertion. Can you produce these eyewitnesses? Do you know how weak an eyewitness testimony is in a criminal trial? How do "prophecies" count as evidence? You "weren't there" either. I take the word of biologists, geologists, and physicists over that of theologians and "prophets" any day of the week. This isn't because I know both science and theology through and through, but because science is clearly the more useful source of information about the physical world and that's a demonstrable fact.

Would you count archaeologists and historians as scientifically rigorous also? (Especially, of course archaeologists).

They confirm facts (outside the Bible) that helps us have a reasonable understanding of prophecy inside the Bible. For example, we can confirm Daniel's conditions for counting 483 360-day years to "Messiah being cut off" outside the Bible, and then see Jesus crucified when He was, at a time that secular scholars affirm as true.

Eyewitness testimony is considered weak or fallible in a criminal trial, yes. However, the New Testament is one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence. You make it sound like three passerby with bad eyesight seeing a car accident for a few seconds. Some of these eyewitnesses grew up as close relations of Jesus and then committed over three years to following Him daily as disciples/mentees.

The same goes times four or five for the Old Testament--it represents in its historical sections eyewitnesses providing documentary evidence. Bear in mind further that the eyewitnesses swear oaths in the name of God as to testifying, the same way that we ask witnesses to swear against perjury with a God oath or other solemn oath. Thanks.

Re " the New Testament is one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence."

What BULLSHIT. Prove it. You can't. NO reputable scholar thinks this.
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16-05-2013, 10:36 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(16-05-2013 12:21 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 09:28 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Would you count archaeologists and historians as scientifically rigorous also? (Especially, of course archaeologists).

They confirm facts (outside the Bible) that helps us have a reasonable understanding of prophecy inside the Bible. For example, we can confirm Daniel's conditions for counting 483 360-day years to "Messiah being cut off" outside the Bible, and then see Jesus crucified when He was, at a time that secular scholars affirm as true.

Eyewitness testimony is considered weak or fallible in a criminal trial, yes. However, the New Testament is one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence. You make it sound like three passerby with bad eyesight seeing a car accident for a few seconds. Some of these eyewitnesses grew up as close relations of Jesus and then committed over three years to following Him daily as disciples/mentees.

The same goes times four or five for the Old Testament--it represents in its historical sections eyewitnesses providing documentary evidence. Bear in mind further that the eyewitnesses swear oaths in the name of God as to testifying, the same way that we ask witnesses to swear against perjury with a God oath or other solemn oath. Thanks.

Re " the New Testament is one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence."

What BULLSHIT. Prove it. You can't. NO reputable scholar thinks this.

Mark....it's all made up to begin with....so they just keep making it up....then repeat......and repeat.........and repeat......and repeat.........and repeat......and repeat.........and repeat.....you should talk to my brother for an hour....take a pint of grandpappies cough medicine with you...you'll need it afterwards.
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16-05-2013, 02:14 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
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16-05-2013, 02:55 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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16-05-2013, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2013 03:37 PM by cbb2274.)
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(15-05-2013 09:33 PM)childeye Wrote:  Yes, but you just agreed with me. You imagine god(s) when you imagine no god(s).
These god(s) you imagine are those the so called theists assert which you claim there is not enough evidence tio support their existence for. You could not clsim there si not enough evidence without imagining them.

I read this reply again and it made me lose the game. Sad

http://www.losethegame.net/

If gods become real every time I imagine them, does that mean I'm a god? Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha HA HA HA. BWA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAA! Hobo

"That's not the proof I want."
"You'll have such proof as exists. You are the only one responsible for your own wants."
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16-05-2013, 06:02 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(16-05-2013 10:36 AM)tokutter Wrote:  
(16-05-2013 12:21 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Re " the New Testament is one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence."

What BULLSHIT. Prove it. You can't. NO reputable scholar thinks this.

Mark....it's all made up to begin with....so they just keep making it up....then repeat......and repeat.........and repeat......and repeat.........and repeat......and repeat.........and repeat.....you should talk to my brother for an hour....take a pint of grandpappies cough medicine with you...you'll need it afterwards.

Yeah...I know.
He won't respond. He won't question what he's written.
There will be others who come across this though, so we mustn't let statements like this slip through without comment.
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17-05-2013, 01:10 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
Quote:Re " the New Testament is one dozen eyewitnesses providing hundreds of pages of written documentary evidence."

What BULLSHIT. Prove it. You can't. NO reputable scholar thinks this

Hi Mark, I see childeye is helping you understand. But please help me understand.

Quote:NO reputable scholar thinks this

That is an absolute worthy of a Sith lord, isn't it? Surely you couldn't possibly mean that ONLY Atheist liberal scholars are reputable? Some religious scholars find the Bible to be more the stuff of fancy than fact, but are you unaware that thousands, even millions, of Jewish and Christian scholars through the centuries, found the Bible to be hundreds of pages of documents with facts in evidence? And even Muslim scholars who say the NT is corrupted somewhat hold that it comes from a true original.

Your statement is one of the most intolerant and belittling statements I've ever heard made about reputable and religious scholars. That isn't what you meant, was it?

You likely meant that you consider, and many mainline scholars consider, that the NT, being hundreds of pages of documents when copied from papyri, scrolls and etc. to modern paper, has hundreds of place names, dates, facts, stories, admonitions and etc. and some falsehoods within.

I'm sure that's what you meant. What you wrote sounded like (dare I invoke Godwin's law here?) Adolf Hitler speaking at a book burning... "We Aryans all KNOW these JEW authors wrote books of lies, all LIES!" [Snarl. Snort.]

No, no, being a reasonable and educated person, you SURELY meant the New Testament has some facts and some prophecies and spiritual teachings you take issue with, too. For example, the historicity of Jesus is a fact:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Quote: "Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed, and although there is little agreement on the historicity of gospel narratives and their theological assertions of his divinity, biblical scholars AND CLASSICAL HISTORIANS regard theories of his non-existence as effectively REFUTED." - [Emphasis mine]
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17-05-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
Um... wikipedia *is* a community resource. I don't think it counts as a reference here... after all you're making a hard claim. Pull me out an actual reference to literature, and not literature published by the Jesus Fanboi Bible club either ? Pretty sure Mark can quote you a few top scholars for the opposing view, which top scholar is aligned with yours ?
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17-05-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
... and just like that, a matter of simply clicking the kindly provided link, I have my answer. Please ignore above comment.
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17-05-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
Religion has demonstrated it's willingness to spread ignorance and destruction.
Religion does not support the progress of humanity or the progress of life on this planet.

Atheism is simply a reaction to religion.
Secular and/or atheist activism is a reaction to the destruction and ignorance which is perpetuated by religion. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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