Atheists And The Moon
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06-05-2013, 07:13 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(06-05-2013 07:10 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(03-05-2013 03:02 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  How was it a test if he knew god had his back and would raise Issac from the dead? The whole biblical concept of 'sacrifice' and Jesus is lost on me. I consider giving something up and not getting it back true sacrifice. How is a few days of being dead, followed by an ascension to your dad's eternal paradise, a sacrifice? And if that sort of suffering was meant to forgive humanity, why does suffering still exist? What is the point of others suffering as badly as Jesus, without getting to rise from the dead after a few days? Doesn't that kind of diminish his story?

'Non-divine' humans suffer worse fates than Jesus for no reason at all.


Um, I have a son and know how I'd feel sacrificing him. The Bible reports that Abraham thought about it for three days before he "got it" as I understand it.

Do what you should with all Bible stories and consider what you would do in the situation.

So it took you three days to figure out "Yeah, if god wants me to, I'd do it"?

No

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06-05-2013, 07:32 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(06-05-2013 07:10 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Um, I have a son and know how I'd feel sacrificing him. The Bible reports that Abraham thought about it for three days before he "got it" as I understand it.

Do what you should with all Bible stories and consider what you would do in the situation.

I hope you would take the Hitchens route and say "f-you" to anyone or anything that asked you to kill your son as a show of faith.

By getting it, I assume you mean he came to understand he would not lose his son (god had his back, would bring his son back to life, etc). Please explain what makes it a sacrifice when the person is returned to you, including the story of Jesus.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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06-05-2013, 07:52 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(06-05-2013 07:10 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Um, I have a son and know how I'd feel sacrificing him. The Bible reports that Abraham thought about it for three days before he "got it" as I understand it.

I have a son. Between him and Gwyneth Paltrow... we don't really bring it up. Tongue

I know the point you're arguing, but the only point you're making by arguing it here, is that you're a douchebag. Consider

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06-05-2013, 08:31 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
pfft, It would take me nanoseconds to decide no if I was asked to sacrifice one of my children. No going back and forth, no nice and tidy list with the plusses on one side and the negatives on the other. A big resounding no f'n way. What would PJ do ? If your sky faerie asked you to sacrifice your child what would you do? Answer honestly, now, I have.
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06-05-2013, 09:04 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(06-05-2013 07:10 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Do what you should with all Bible stories and consider what you would do in the situation.

The Bible "reports" nothing. You still don't get it. There was no word for "history" in ancient Hebrew. The idea of "reporting accurately" is "presentism". It never occurred to them to "report" an event. They "remembered" *actively*. That means they made it up. You should do what you should do with every text in any book. Ask yourself what purpose the editor/redactor had in placing that text in in that place. This myth is no different.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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06-05-2013, 09:08 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
Oh ABraham knew better because God would restor Isaac at worst eh?
BS. The best he could have hoped for, if we look from there to the Job account is him replacing Isaac, like he did with Job's family after killing them horribly to prove a point.
God didn't have his back, he was forcing him into the situation.
The only redeeming fact about either stories is both were works of fiction.

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06-05-2013, 09:15 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
If I heard a voice telling me to kill any human I'd be spooked right and proper even if the voice suggested I harm them. I'd probably check myself into a psychiatric ward. I wouldn't think of doing it. Actually if I heard voices in my head I'd probably check in regardless of what they told me to do.

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06-05-2013, 12:33 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
Quote:If I heard a voice telling me to kill any human I'd be spooked right and proper even if the voice suggested I harm them. I'd probably check myself into a psychiatric ward. I wouldn't think of doing it. Actually if I heard voices in my head I'd probably check in regardless of what they told me to do.
And this is what I mean by this endless cycle of:

1. Take the verses out of context.

2. Accuse believers of some kind of easy (uninformed believism).

In CONTEXT, Abraham not only "heard a voice" but was visited by God in incarnate form. They dined together and He foretold that Abraham, who would then be about 100, and Sarah, who would then be about 90, would have a child, a unique (only) son.

Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”[c] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.

18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[d] 19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

In CONTEXT, Abraham saw God, who proved Himself a promise-keeping prophet, and then Abraham's "faith" was not blind but reasoned/reasonable trust. Period.

I have NO problem arguing what the Bible says as long as people read in context all that it has to say!
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06-05-2013, 12:41 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(06-05-2013 12:33 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I have NO problem arguing what the Bible says as long as people read in context all that it has to say!

You of all people can't bitch about that. YOU refuse to read it in context of the Documentary Hypothesis. It's YOUR context. That's all you mean, old man.
Get back to work.

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06-05-2013, 12:49 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
So PJ if you dined with your diety and he asked you to sacrifice your child to him, would you?
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