Atheists And The Moon
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08-05-2013, 07:08 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
This line of discussion is ridiculous on its face.

The entire book of Job can be taken as a whole or individual passages as a prophecy of an innocent who suffers for forwarding God's greater plan.

There are books and solid prophecy guidances online doing the same for Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.

This week I'm reading 2 Samuel and it's plain how David is dethroned and suffers than restored to a glorious throne--upon the death of a beloved son--"Absalom, my son, my son, would I had died instead of [a substitution] you."

There is no issue other than the historicity of Jesus and the reliability of the gospels and epistles. If they are accurate documents, Jesus fulfills prophecy and is Messiah, King and God.

It's a bonus that an ancient Passover, as I wrote, was prophesied for Messiah/Prince to be cut off. BB may not have heard--some sects of religious Jews forbid the reading of Daniel 9 until one is "40 years in Talmud study"... why? Because Daniel 9 clearly marks Y'shua as Moshiach. Religious Jews who study Daniel 9 thoroughly "go crazy"--they become Messianic believers and trust Jesus for salvation.

It's a bonus that May 14, 1948 CE is the same date in the Jewish calendar that, according to prophecy, Israel would become a secular, not God-led nation, in one day, by decree.

It's a bonus that the HB says four times that the Jewish Messiah will be worshipped around the world.

It's a bonus that the Messiah had to be not only of Judah but David.

It's a bonus that Messiah had to be of David but not Solomon, and that the SOLE way for this to happen was for the title-right holder of closest descent to David, Joseph, to "adopt" the eldest child of David's descendant through Nathan, Mary.

It's a bonus that the Bible codes are utterly unique (the REAL codes and gematria) and cannot be duplicated in other texts or in languages besides Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew. It's a triple bonus that the numeric values to the letters that reveal codes were not appropriated until centuries after the Bible was written!

In sum, there are numerous excellent prophecies of the HB toward their fulfillment in the Greek scriptures, including the main themes of many of the HB books.
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08-05-2013, 07:12 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon



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08-05-2013, 07:50 AM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(08-05-2013 06:31 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I'm so confused right now.

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08-05-2013, 08:14 AM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2013 10:11 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  This line of discussion is ridiculous on its face.

Agree, and guess who started it ? SexuallyPleasingJebus.
With his "prophesy as soothsaying" crap.

(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The entire book of Job can be taken as a whole or individual passages as a prophecy of an innocent who suffers for forwarding God's greater plan.

Apparently you never read it. It was the first book of the Bible written, in an attempt to explain, (however poorly) the question of suffering, and how a nation could be made to suffer and dragged into exile, if it were actually "chosen". Job was a complete myth, and you know it. The people doubted, after the Exile experience, and they needed to be controlled. The priests needed to keep their jobs, just like you do. It's "prophetic" of nothing. It was an attempt to explain and control the PR message content ....*spin control* : "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be hindered ..... I have dealt with things that I do not understand; things too wonderful for me, which I cannot know". Job 42. It was an attempt to explain misfortune, and it did not do so. No one questions that. In the end, it even admitted it could not. Grow up Pleasy, and stop lying. Get a real job. Stop trying to control the spin.

(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  There are books and solid prophecy guidances online doing the same for Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.

Thank you for admitting they are not about telling the future.

(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  This week I'm reading 2 Samuel and it's plain how David is dethroned and suffers than restored to a glorious throne--upon the death of a beloved son--"Absalom, my son, my son, would I had died instead of [a substitution] you."

No one here cares. A god who REQUIRES a system to "substitute" a sacrifice is beholden to that system, and cannot be it's creator. Thank you for proving your god is not in control of Reality, but indeed subject to it, and it's systematics.

(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  There is no issue other than the historicity of Jesus and the reliability of the gospels and epistles. If they are accurate documents, Jesus fulfills prophecy and is Messiah, King and God.

They are not. You cannot claim he was a messiah. He failed to get the job done. You are utterly biased, and they are totally unreliable. They conflict in many major and minor details. They are not "history" in any way. The very nature of a gospel, (the "good news") is a biased look at events, and beliefs, for use in worship events. No one sat around "reading gospels". They were originally ONLY used in worship, .... proclaimed to believers, by believers. They are about belief. Not about "history". They are in no way "historical".

The death which you have evaded, yet again, was said to occur on two different days, at two different times. That is not "accurate". You are a liar. What day exactly was predicted, by whom, and what day did Jebus die. Tell us now, or STFU. Then explain how exactly you seem to know that, and no historian is sure of that day, and time.

(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  It's a bonus that an ancient Passover, as I wrote, was prophesied for Messiah/Prince to be cut off. BB may not have heard--some sects of religious Jews forbid the reading of Daniel 9 until one is "40 years in Talmud study"... why? Because Daniel 9 clearly marks Y'shua as Moshiach. Religious Jews who study Daniel 9 thoroughly "go crazy"--they become Messianic believers and trust Jesus for salvation.

Who cares. They do not. They read it, and move on. Again, you have offered no proof of your claim. Obviously millions of Jews have read it, and not become believers in messianism. There is no need for "salvation", if there is no immortality. Just more Presentism, you spout. Completely out of context. To make it look like you know something others don't. You need a job. You STILL have not given us the EXACT day which you said they gave. WHAT WAS IT ?? There is no need for "salvation" if they did not believe in immortality, which they did not.
Jebus never claimed he had "performed" a *salvific* act. It was cooked up by Saul of Tarsus, and slapped onto your cult. Even after he was said to have "risen" he STILL did not claim to be a messiah. So you have no case. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ic-Origins
You are slapping your ignorant, childish, 3rd Grade understanding of ancient texts onto texts which you NEED to say the shit you spout, as that is your BUSINESS. You have a lifetime *business* invested in a misunderstanding of ancient texts, and you will never admit it. It's about your business, and your friends' businesses. Money for Jebus. That's all. Business. Money.

(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  It's a bonus that the HB says four times that the Jewish Messiah will be worshiped around the world

Great. When and if he shows up, (and YOUR'S DID NOT GET THE JOB DONE, thus cannot be claimed to BE the "Jewish messiah"), maybe he will be. I seriously doubt it. The scientific age has made your BS irrelevant, even thought you cannot admit it.

(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  It's a bonus that Messiah had to be of David but not Solomon, and that the SOLE way for this to happen was for the title-right holder of closest descent to David, Joseph, to "adopt" the eldest child of David's descendant through Nathan, Mary.

In other words, for your crap to be true, you have to contort the facts. No one ever used the female line ever, except in this case. A very weak argument. Again, he cannot be claimed to BE the messiah, if he failed his primary job. The genealogies are not consistent in the gospels. One "may" be Mary's, but the number of generations is FAR different. What happened to all the missing years and generations ? Bad genes ? You also have in no way proven in any way whatsoever, he *was* the rightful claimant, or that Joseph was the closest relative. Or that there ever was an adoption. No gospel even mentions it once. You just make up crap, to bolster your very weak, non-existent case, which would be thrown out of any modern court in a second., and you know it. Joseph was not accorded an honor of being known as THE heir of David. No one else mentions it. Ever.

(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  It's a bonus that the Bible codes are utterly unique (the REAL codes and gematria) and cannot be duplicated in other texts or in languages besides Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew. It's a triple bonus that the numeric values to the letters that reveal codes were not appropriated until centuries after the Bible was written!

ao else did a duplictBullshit. Prove it. You have NEVER done an evaluation of any other book, or text to show us, who tried the "duplication". Who else did a "duplication ? Wen / Where ? Liar. Assertions with no evidence, as usual. Completely out of historical context. Ignorance of the culture, in general. Fundie, childish nonsense. Proves NOTHING. Prove that this does not happen in one other text. You have never even tried. The texts were assembled by people who had no clue about this nonsense. No serious scholar takes this absolute garbage, seriously. It simply show how completely out of touch you are with reality, and scholarship, in general. Bible codes, indeed. You would get laughed off the campus of any serious school.

(08-05-2013 07:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  In sum, there are numerous excellent prophecies of the HB toward their fulfillment in the Greek scriptures, including the main themes of many of the HB books.

Wrong again. Failed. Prophesy was not about "telling the future". Your entire argument is flawed in it's essential core, as you have mistaken the nature of the role of a prophet, as most of you fundie preachers who run their business by promoting this crap.

Try harder, SexuallyPleasingJebusTrollJoke.
Another "F" for the days trolling.

Tongue

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08-05-2013, 12:15 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
Again, if you could explain why you're insufferably rude and foul mouthed all the time? What is making you so angry? Surely not the pursuit of truth, which gives one a general gravitas and salvation...

Your meanderings about Job and Isaiah and etc. fail to grasp that these tomes can have more than one purpose. Suffering and salvation, prophecies of Messiah, individual lessons, etc.

Your comment re: Job and the nation is misleading at best, since Job's own friends were rebuked by God. Job does not equal Israel, although Israel itself is often a placeholding prophecy of Messiah--hated without reason, surrounded by enemies, etc.

I've heard your rant now a number of times re: the Messiah didn't get the job done... if you're speaking of a political restoration of Israel, you've never set foot inside any secular or theological university if you're that incredibly unaware that such restoration occurs in the context of the Armageddon. Was the world able to destroy itself through warfare in the 1st century? Were there 200 million horsed soldiers then? There weren't even 200 million people around then, likely!

Not to mention that God is saving Gentiles and Jews during the interim between the advents. Do you really think 100 million Christians and more don't understand how to parse the two comings of Messiah? Do you think only addle-brained faculty in your institution have pondered the issues here? Bucky, what's wrong with you?

The female line was used in notable instances where there was a guarantor of an inheritance like Moses or David. The female line solves the prophecy issue and Joseph's lineage is demonstrated in his descendancy direct from David. You're quibbling over tiny issues in your mind--my point stands as does YOURS, either the NT is a fabrication since it CLEARLY fulfills prophecies or it's factual.

Clearly you are also ignorant about the reportings in Scientific American and elsewhere about the Bible codes. Even Prime Minister Rabin was warned of his own assassination. Are you really that ignorant of recent history?

My point stands. Millions of reasonable people see the prophecies. Upon them is guaranteed salvation. Will you trust Jesus?
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08-05-2013, 12:26 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
So, PJ

You ever going to finish the conversations you start with me? Or is ignoring me the only way to preserve your worldview?

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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08-05-2013, 12:36 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2013 01:55 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(08-05-2013 12:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Again, if you could explain why you're insufferably rude and foul mouthed all the time? What is making you so angry? Surely not the pursuit of truth, which gives one a general gravitas and salvation...

Your meanderings about Job and Isaiah and etc. fail to grasp that these tomes can have more than one purpose. Suffering and salvation, prophecies of Messiah, individual lessons, etc.

Your comment re: Job and the nation is misleading at best, since Job's own friends were rebuked by God. Job does not equal Israel, although Israel itself is often a placeholding prophecy of Messiah--hated without reason, surrounded by enemies, etc.

I've heard your rant now a number of times re: the Messiah didn't get the job done... if you're speaking of a political restoration of Israel, you've never set foot inside any secular or theological university if you're that incredibly unaware that such restoration occurs in the context of the Armageddon. Was the world able to destroy itself through warfare in the 1st century? Were there 200 million horsed soldiers then? There weren't even 200 million people around then, likely!

Not to mention that God is saving Gentiles and Jews during the interim between the advents. Do you really think 100 million Christians and more don't understand how to parse the two comings of Messiah? Do you think only addle-brained faculty in your institution have pondered the issues here? Bucky, what's wrong with you?

The female line was used in notable instances where there was a guarantor of an inheritance like Moses or David. The female line solves the prophecy issue and Joseph's lineage is demonstrated in his descendancy direct from David. You're quibbling over tiny issues in your mind--my point stands as does YOURS, either the NT is a fabrication since it CLEARLY fulfills prophecies or it's factual.

Clearly you are also ignorant about the reportings in Scientific American and elsewhere about the Bible codes. Even Prime Minister Rabin was warned of his own assassination. Are you really that ignorant of recent history?

My point stands. Millions of reasonable people see the prophecies. Upon them is guaranteed salvation. Will you trust Jesus?

"Millions of reasonable people" also said the Earth was flat. It's called the "argumentum ad populum". A common street-level fallacy, which anyone with any education at all would know.

All generalizations with not a shred of substantiation. Stop reading "anger". Start reading "impatience" with stupidity. You are insufferably self-righteous and "superior". You get what you dish out. I am not angry. You are not worth the energy. You are an intellectual imbecile/light-weight. None of your points stand. You didn't even know when or why Job was written. Job was a myth, as were all the characters in it. You read as though you are a 2 year old. Show me the OTHER books where they tried the codes, and found them absent. You are 110 % full of shit. No one believes anything you say. You have no references, no substantiation.

WHAT WAS THE DAY ? Why do we have to keep asking this ? YOU ASSERTED A DAY. WHAT WAS IT ? Were you lying again ?

Jebus is dead. "Salvation" was a cooked up justification to keep your inane cult going. You have actually not addressed one point, in substance or with any facts. Now you get an "F - ". Tongue
Go troll elsewhere, JebusBusinessMan.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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08-05-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(08-05-2013 12:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Clearly you are also ignorant about the reportings in Scientific American and elsewhere about the Bible codes. Even Prime Minister Rabin was warned of his own assassination. Are you really that ignorant of recent history?

Jesus...please! Rolleyes
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08-05-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(08-05-2013 12:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My point stands. Millions of reasonable people see the prophecies. Upon them is guaranteed salvation. Will you trust Jesus?

You stand on your own.
There is no such thing as prophesy or the ability to foresee events.
There is no escaping death. To think otherwise is a very false notion.
Here. Now. No guarantees.
I trust only that I am.

***

It is extremely obvious that you have no understanding of the noun, atheist. On the other hand, I have many friends who are theist and I understand that word implicitly.
You tell me who I am; really?

People here are have no need or reason to feed your insecurities Pj and your "lessons" ad nauseam are just as insulting and disrespectful as insults hurled.

You get what you came here for.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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08-05-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: Atheists And The Moon
(08-05-2013 12:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Clearly you are also ignorant about the reportings in Scientific American and elsewhere about the Bible codes. Even Prime Minister Rabin was warned of his own assassination. Are you really that ignorant of recent history?

What What what?Its quite easy to find articles debunking the so called bible code but not one supporting it. Could you please provide the Scientific American Issue that supports the Bible Code? I'd love to read it.
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