Poll: Do you support the right to bear arms?
Yes
No
Keep Hunting Rifles Only
Pistols but not AR(s) + 3
Assualt Rifles + 3 & 4
[Show Results]
Note: This is a public poll, other users will be able to see what you voted for.
Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-04-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(22-04-2014 05:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-04-2014 02:31 PM)=jesse= Wrote:  ... a concealed carry permit, ...

How you'd get that in MD? I thought we had to have a reasonable justification like our job means we carry around large sums of cash for a bookie or we're private investigators or bounty hunters or corrupt politicians expecting dangerous situations. Did you have to just submit an application and pay a fee? .... Not that I could carry my shotguns around easily concealed. ... Joe Biden is right, the best home invasion defense is the shotgun, you just gotta pick the right load. Don't like pistols. Too many accidents waiting to happen. Too easy to eat for anyone at a picnic.

The best defense is not a shotgun! First of all, the buckshot is going to hurt anyone in the immediate area. Second, at most you have two shots (presuming double barrel). Third, do you think a shotgun is easy to swing around in a hallway? The hallway is where 90% of all encounters with an intruder happen. A pistol is light, can hold 10 rounds, and isn't anymore "prone to accidents" than a shotgun.

The safety rules for pistols are the same for shotguns. A pistol is not an accident waiting to happen. That's sheer ignorance.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Cathym112's post
22-04-2014, 05:55 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(22-04-2014 05:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  "Well regulated" applies to "militia". And the clause applies to the very existence of a militia - if the people do not have arms, there can be no militia.

I'm aware; preliminary versions were explicitly references to public arsenals.

(22-04-2014 05:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  I have no argument with reasonable laws that actually effect solutions to actual problems. But don't misinterpret the Second Amendment to bolster an ideology.

I don't think I am (not that I'd be necessarily be aware if I were...).

What I mean is, the second amendment exists because of historical considerations over two hundred years ago - but, it's making explicit a legal philosophy I totally endorse: "the default state is no law or regulation, and don't you forget it". Which is to say, if things are demonstrably dangerous, and regulation demonstrably minimizes that danger, then and only then is it justifiable.
(but I do think both apply in spades to guns and other weapons)

People who say "second amendment, therefore no regulation of guns" are a distasteful combination of vacuous and dogmatic. And as an external observer, it can sometimes seem like those voices contribute to preventing any discussion of any regulation.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(22-04-2014 05:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-04-2014 04:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are 51 sets of laws in the U.S. Some states regulate firearms over and above the federal laws, some don't.

[pedant]Slightly more than 51, wouldn't it be? Federal, state, DC, +territories[/pedant]

Indeed; that's in an of itself reasonable and as expected.

It's just that there's a vocal crowd of idiots to whom the existence of an amendment (explicitly containing the words "well-regulated") means that the best regulation is no regulation.

In my experience that viewpoint tends to poison the discussion by its mere existence - certainly so far as general public discourse in the US goes.

Agreed. Even the NRA supports sensible regulation!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2014, 06:04 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(22-04-2014 05:55 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-04-2014 05:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  "Well regulated" applies to "militia". And the clause applies to the very existence of a militia - if the people do not have arms, there can be no militia.

I'm aware; preliminary versions were explicitly references to public arsenals.

(22-04-2014 05:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  I have no argument with reasonable laws that actually effect solutions to actual problems. But don't misinterpret the Second Amendment to bolster an ideology.

I don't think I am (not that I'd be necessarily be aware if I were...).

What I mean is, the second amendment exists because of historical considerations over two hundred years ago - but, it's making explicit a legal philosophy I totally endorse: "the default state is no law or regulation, and don't you forget it". Which is to say, if things are demonstrably dangerous, and regulation demonstrably minimizes that danger, then and only then is it justifiable.
(but I do think both apply in spades to guns and other weapons)

People who say "second amendment, therefore no regulation of guns" are a distasteful combination of vacuous and dogmatic. And as an external observer, it can sometimes seem like those voices contribute to preventing any discussion of any regulation.

No real argument. Today is not 1781.
I have tried on more than one occasion to have the civil discussion that avoids both "no restrictions" and "no guns". It rarely goes well. Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2014, 06:05 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(15-08-2012 08:00 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  
(15-08-2012 09:22 AM)tnt4philly Wrote:  I didn't miss the point at all. It is illegal for hospitals to refuse treatment for any reason. Access is not an issue. Coverage for some is and I admit there are some people who fall into gaps.

And that's why it's so fuckin' expensive. You talk like it isn't, but you're either on your parents healthcare still or you've got good healthcare yourself and are just completely oblivious. My bet is the former.

I personally can afford it just fine, but unlike you I care deeply about those that can't. Medical expenses are the LEADING cause of bankruptcy in the US, even when many are insured - because expenses are out of control (Source). People going into the ER to get care is one of the reasons it is so expensive - that cost is being absorbed somewhere, and it's our pockets.

The ER isn't going to be able to help treat cancer or provide therapy for serious injuries, or any of the many reasons to go to a primary care physician or specialist. They're there to stabilize people and treat immediate injuries. They don't even have the facilities for much of the more in-depth treatment you'd need for cancer, diabetes, AIDS, etc. - they'd transfer you to another part of the hospital and you'd have to pay to get treatment.

(15-08-2012 09:25 AM)tnt4philly Wrote:  I could care less what WHO says. I bet tat people are not flocking to the 36 countries that listed above us as much as people are here.

Give me a break. You want to know something? Many US citizens travel out of the US and seek healthcare elsewhere. SURPRISE! The reason? It's so damned expensive here (sauce). 29% of those polled said they would do so for significant & necessary procedures.

(15-08-2012 09:28 AM)tnt4philly Wrote:  Yeah, far be it that anyone would have to work for something. Either way, being the best does not mean it is perfect. I admit there are flaws in our system regarding coverage, but the quality of our healthcare is absolutely the best in the world.

Oh, far be it that anyone would have to work for the right to live. Can't afford $300k for cancer treatments? Fuck you, go die in a ditch. What a compassionate way to view things. Everything's about $$$ isn't it? Don't got it, you aren't worth shit. A compassionate society is one that helps those less fortunate, which in this case includes the middle class.

Guess what, I do work for what I've got, I'm just not a selfish twat. I just don't think that earning good money means anything about my value as a person.

Frankksj, is this you?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2014, 06:13 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(22-04-2014 06:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  No real argument. Today is not 1781.

Argument by whom? I'm afraid I'm not clear who you're referring to.

(22-04-2014 06:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  I have tried on more than one occasion to have the civil discussion that avoids both "no restrictions" and "no guns". It rarely goes well. Dodgy

I think that's probably because it rests on some unquantifiable factors, or at the very least is influenced by non-rational moral positions - which inevitably vary statistically.

We can take "gun" as a subset of "weapon" - that's reasonable, isn't it?
(and here I note that, as far as "weapon" is concerned, I'm more of a criminal under Canadian law for owning fucking nunchaku than if I'd not bothered reporting my grandfather's old rifle - how's that for ridiculous?)

But, then - as to regulation of weapons: can I build a nuclear bomb for my personal use? I certainly could do so.

...

But yeah, an emotionally based position (cf "MUH FREEDUMS" vs "DEATH MACHINES") is going to be pretty prone to uncivil discourse.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2014, 06:16 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
I think if they keep telling me I can't mount that auto-loading, 30mm, cannon I've been drooling over, on my car (for use in bad traffic Shy ), you'll all be safe!

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(22-04-2014 05:48 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(22-04-2014 05:42 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Having read Jesse's post, and noting that theism is on the rise and education on the wane in America, how do you guys see the country's future?

Is America the next Afghanistan?

Source please? It may feel like theism is on the rise because of moron states like AZ and KS, but the states like MA, NY, IL, etc, balance that shit out!


My sourse is just my observation. I see ID in the news all the time, science being attacked...am I wrong? I hope so.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2014, 06:20 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
So, is there some sort of certificate to make sure all these people are part of a well regulated militia? Or are they going to pick and choose what they like, like religious people? Dodgy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-04-2014, 06:32 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(22-04-2014 06:19 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(22-04-2014 05:48 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Source please? It may feel like theism is on the rise because of moron states like AZ and KS, but the states like MA, NY, IL, etc, balance that shit out!


My sourse is just my observation. I see ID in the news all the time, science being attacked...am I wrong? I hope so.

I have no idea. I just wondered where you got that information.

I actually get my observation that atheism is on the rise. This pious politians are actually helping push people away from religion. Most people are sensible. There are people who do believe in god, but don't think it should be in our schools, or be able to discriminate based on religion, and object to Hobby Lobby's lawsuit, and still accept evolution, medicine, science, and that the bible isn't exactly accurate, and flawed.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: