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Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
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23-04-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 05:04 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 09:14 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  How does the need for self defense get to a point where one feels it is necessary to arm themselves? Simply by living in an area where there are people. A certain percentage of people are going to be criminals in modern society. The causes of which are a topic for another discussion. Those criminals need victims in order to be successful criminals. I refuse to allow myself to become one of those victims. As I've already stated, I almost was a victim of a mugging. Prior to that, a close family friend of mine was mugged, beaten, and killed. All in a neighborhood that has a very low crime rate. Crime does happen, and it can happen to anyone. Until we come up with a law enforcement solution that nets zero crime (or at least zero violent crime), I will feel it necessary to take the defense of my life seriously, and therefore carry a gun. Police can not be counted on to prevent crimes from happening. Our very own supreme court has ruled that they actually have no duty to protect you from crime. Their only duty is to report and investigate crime. But by that time, the crime has already been committed and there is already a victim.

On gun restrictions, I am for some of them and against many of them. As most americans are.

Background checks: Thumbsup However, some of the restrictions should be changed. Violent felons should never be allowed to own guns. They have already proven to society that they are violent individuals and by doing so have given up their right to own such a powerful tool. That being said, I don't think that ALL felons should lose their gun rights. There are over 64,0000 ways to commit a felony in America. Most of them are non-violent. These are things like fraud, perjury, or smoking a joint. These are not violent people and should not be denied the right to own guns.

Restrictions on what you can buy:

This is a mixed bag for me. I don't think that any type of conventional firearm should be disallowed. Even fully automatic weapons. Full autos are completely legal to own in the USA, all it requires is a clean background and a decent amount of money. I'm pretty OK with this restriction as it doesn't actually prevent me from buying one if I were so inclined. (I'm not, mainly due to the waste of money that full auto is. That, and I can rent one if I feel the need to spray bullets at a target) I do know several people who own fully automatic guns. They pretty much stay in the gun safe. They're not practical for any use, in general.

I am a huge proponent of concealed carry. I carry almost daily and as I have stated, have been saved from being a victim because of it. When I got my license to carry, I had to go through a weekend course in firearms safety and concealed carry laws. Personally, I think it should have been more training before letting people carry. I am a very experienced shooter, an excellent shot, and very knowledgeable on firearms. Even with those qualifications, having professional training taught me a few things. People that go out and buy a gun, never shoot it, and then go the weekend training course can get a license. These are not people that I would want to have my back in a dangerous situation.

Over all, I think gun education needs to be drastically increased. I have taken time out of my range time to help people be safer with guns and teach them how to properly aim. The better educated people are with their guns, the safe everyone around them will be.

Well it should go without saying that better education for anything is a must, which is pretty much why I'm here reading this: I'm really damn ignorant of this stuff and I've brains enough to admit that I'm ignorant on a topic like this; there are a lot of things I don't get.

I mean, why would fully automatic weapons ever be sold? That seems really excessive for the purposes of self defence anywhere but a battlefield (and if my studies have taught me anything, even there it's not that helpful). I can understand semi automatic weapons for hunting and defence, but the alternative just seems absolutely insane to me.

And I'm not too sure on the concealed carry thing either... Undoubtedly the mere presence of a gun is going to make would-be offenders think twice, so why bother hiding the fact that you have it? To surprise them? Make them think you are unarmed and thus encourage their advance?

I've spoken with KC on these sorts of topics before and we ended up chalking it up to cultural differences, maybe that was right after all. If you ever have the time and ability frankly I'd love to speak with you and others on this; it's a little easier for me than text.

Full auto is pretty much useless except for suppressive fire. It's why most people will never go through the hassle and expense of purchasing one. They are mostly in the hands of collectors and people who have lots of money to waste on ammo. If you pull and hold the trigger on most full autos, you'll drain a 30 rd magazine in 3 to 6 seconds. And most likely won't have any sort of accuracy. That said, they are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot. Just not practical for anything. Even a madman firing into a crowd would do better with a semiautomatic.

Concealed carry: Yeah, it would be a much better deterrent to have the gun visible. Open carry, as it is called, is legal in much of the USA. However it is a good way to get the cops called on you due to ignorant people assuming that if you have a gun, you're up to no good. It is better to keep it hidden and only reveal it if necessary. As it was in my case. Often, that is all that is needed to halt the attack.

I would be happy to talk with you in a better format for discussion. Suggestions?
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23-04-2014, 05:32 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 05:16 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 05:04 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Well it should go without saying that better education for anything is a must, which is pretty much why I'm here reading this: I'm really damn ignorant of this stuff and I've brains enough to admit that I'm ignorant on a topic like this; there are a lot of things I don't get.

I mean, why would fully automatic weapons ever be sold? That seems really excessive for the purposes of self defence anywhere but a battlefield (and if my studies have taught me anything, even there it's not that helpful). I can understand semi automatic weapons for hunting and defence, but the alternative just seems absolutely insane to me.

And I'm not too sure on the concealed carry thing either... Undoubtedly the mere presence of a gun is going to make would-be offenders think twice, so why bother hiding the fact that you have it? To surprise them? Make them think you are unarmed and thus encourage their advance?

I've spoken with KC on these sorts of topics before and we ended up chalking it up to cultural differences, maybe that was right after all. If you ever have the time and ability frankly I'd love to speak with you and others on this; it's a little easier for me than text.

Full auto is pretty much useless except for suppressive fire. It's why most people will never go through the hassle and expense of purchasing one. They are mostly in the hands of collectors and people who have lots of money to waste on ammo. If you pull and hold the trigger on most full autos, you'll drain a 30 rd magazine in 3 to 6 seconds. And most likely won't have any sort of accuracy. That said, they are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot. Just not practical for anything. Even a madman firing into a crowd would do better with a semiautomatic.

Concealed carry: Yeah, it would be a much better deterrent to have the gun visible. Open carry, as it is called, is legal in much of the USA. However it is a good way to get the cops called on you due to ignorant people assuming that if you have a gun, you're up to no good. It is better to keep it hidden and only reveal it if necessary. As it was in my case. Often, that is all that is needed to halt the attack.

I would be happy to talk with you in a better format for discussion. Suggestions?

Outside of the forum, there is always Skype if possible. A lot of people do have it here, so if we talked through that we might get some more opinions in it too.

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23-04-2014, 05:42 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 05:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  Is either of these a "war grade weapon" or a "sniper rifle"?

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Top one is both. Bottom one is neither.

#sigh
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23-04-2014, 06:03 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 05:32 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 05:16 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Full auto is pretty much useless except for suppressive fire. It's why most people will never go through the hassle and expense of purchasing one. They are mostly in the hands of collectors and people who have lots of money to waste on ammo. If you pull and hold the trigger on most full autos, you'll drain a 30 rd magazine in 3 to 6 seconds. And most likely won't have any sort of accuracy. That said, they are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot. Just not practical for anything. Even a madman firing into a crowd would do better with a semiautomatic.

Concealed carry: Yeah, it would be a much better deterrent to have the gun visible. Open carry, as it is called, is legal in much of the USA. However it is a good way to get the cops called on you due to ignorant people assuming that if you have a gun, you're up to no good. It is better to keep it hidden and only reveal it if necessary. As it was in my case. Often, that is all that is needed to halt the attack.

I would be happy to talk with you in a better format for discussion. Suggestions?

Outside of the forum, there is always Skype if possible. A lot of people do have it here, so if we talked through that we might get some more opinions in it too.

I have Skype and would love to participate in such a discussion.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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23-04-2014, 06:43 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 06:03 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 05:32 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Outside of the forum, there is always Skype if possible. A lot of people do have it here, so if we talked through that we might get some more opinions in it too.

I have Skype and would love to participate in such a discussion.
PM me if you want to discuss setting this up. We'll need to set ground rules and find out who else may be interested in participating.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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23-04-2014, 06:51 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 06:43 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 06:03 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  I have Skype and would love to participate in such a discussion.
PM me if you want to discuss setting this up. We'll need to set ground rules and find out who else may be interested in participating.

I'm game.

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23-04-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 05:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 05:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  Is either of these a "war grade weapon" or a "sniper rifle"?

[Image: 1Evil1Not.jpg]

Top one is both. Bottom one is neither.

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23-04-2014, 06:55 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
Everything is "war grade" if it's the right kind of war.

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23-04-2014, 10:21 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 01:29 AM by Stevil.)
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 06:22 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 02:46 AM)Stevil Wrote:  What the fuck does a civilian in a civilised country need an AK47 for?

I have only ever used mine for sport shooting...

(23-04-2014 02:32 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Forgive me, but this is simply ignorant and ignores the larger issue. Target shooting is not the only reason I would want a semi auto gun. Defense is the biggest reason.
In my ongoing conversation with you, we were discussing why civilian in a civilised country needs an AK...

You stated that you had one for sport shooting.

Now you have moved the posts and stated that the main reason is for defense.

I can imagine the gleam in your arms dealer salesman as he makes his pitch to you:
"Just imagine, racial tension is high, some white cop shoots an unarmed black or hispanic kid, the local blacks or hispanics are in an uproar, start rioting. Your little white face is a beacon just beckoning them towards you, What are you gonna do? Well, with this baby, 50 rounds in the clip, guaranteed to fire everytime you pull the trigger, you could quite easily perch yourself atop your roof, get yourself all comfy and start pickin' those little black or hispanic b'stards off, C'mon, you owe it to yourself, your wife and kids, your white neighbors to have one of these babies. And if you buy this now, I'll even throw in a couple of grenades. Woah baby, you know you need this."

You grinning from ear to ear.
"Fuck yeah, can't put a price on my family's life, I don't care what this semi-auto costs, yeah baby!"

Personally, I can't see any reason whatsoever for me or my neighbors to own an assault rifle. I feel society is much safer without them being sold to every immature Rambo wanna be.
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24-04-2014, 06:03 AM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 10:21 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Personally, I can't see any reason whatsoever for me or my neighbors to own an assault rifle. I feel society is much safer without them being sold to every immature Rambo wanna be.

A semi-automatic rifle is not an assault rifle.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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