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Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
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24-04-2014, 06:20 AM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 10:21 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 06:22 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  I have only ever used mine for sport shooting...

(23-04-2014 02:32 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Forgive me, but this is simply ignorant and ignores the larger issue. Target shooting is not the only reason I would want a semi auto gun. Defense is the biggest reason.
In my ongoing conversation with you, we were discussing why civilian in a civilised country needs an AK...

You stated that you had one for sport shooting.

Now you have moved the posts and stated that the main reason is for defense.

I can imagine the gleam in your arms dealer salesman as he makes his pitch to you:
"Just imagine, racial tension is high, some white cop shoots an unarmed black or hispanic kid, the local blacks or hispanics are in an uproar, start rioting. Your little white face is a beacon just beckoning them towards you, What are you gonna do? Well, with this baby, 50 rounds in the clip, guaranteed to fire everytime you pull the trigger, you could quite easily perch yourself atop your roof, get yourself all comfy and start pickin' those little black or hispanic b'stards off, C'mon, you owe it to yourself, your wife and kids, your white neighbors to have one of these babies. And if you buy this now, I'll even throw in a couple of grenades. Woah baby, you know you need this."

You grinning from ear to ear.
"Fuck yeah, can't put a price on my family's life, I don't care what this semi-auto costs, yeah baby!"

Personally, I can't see any reason whatsoever for me or my neighbors to own an assault rifle. I feel society is much safer without them being sold to every immature Rambo wanna be.
I was referencing two different guns, if you weren't an ignorant ass, you might have realized that.

If that's the way you think, you need professional help.

I'm done with you. You have no interest in having an intelligent conversation about guns. All you've done here is accuse me of being a Rambo wannabe and apparently now I'm also racist... Dodgy

There is no reasoning with someone who is unreasonable.

Good day, sir.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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24-04-2014, 06:46 AM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
It'snotmeitsyou,

My home and my person are heavily armed. So far, I've never had to even pull out my weapon.

I see it like owning umbrellas. When you carry one, it rarely rains. It's when you don't have it that you need it.

I used to be ignorant of guns. After I got mauled by a dog, I decided I needed more than just pepper spray. So I educated myself, got a permit, and joined shooting clubs. I always used to think that carrying a gun would escalate any situation. The opposite happens. It de-escalates situations very quickly. Knowing I gave a gun pressed to my body helps me remain calm, knowing that I am in complete control of when the situation will end.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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24-04-2014, 06:49 AM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(24-04-2014 06:46 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  It'snotmeitsyou,

My home and my person are heavily armed. So far, I've never had to even pull out my weapon.

I see it like owning umbrellas. When you carry one, it rarely rains. It's when you don't have it that you need it.

I used to be ignorant of guns. After I got mauled by a dog, I decided I needed more than just pepper spray. So I educated myself, got a permit, and joined shooting clubs. I always used to think that carrying a gun would escalate any situation. The opposite happens. It de-escalates situations very quickly. Knowing I gave a gun pressed to my body helps me remain calm, knowing that I am in complete control of when the situation will end.

Thank you, Cathy.

If you would be interested in telling more of your story, we're going to have a Skype discussion about this. See the other thread I posted in the politics tab. It might be nice to have someone like you who changed the way they think based on gaining knowledge.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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24-04-2014, 11:49 AM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
[/quote]
In my ongoing conversation with you, we were discussing why civilian in a civilised country needs an AK..

I can imagine the gleam in your arms dealer salesman as he makes his pitch to you:
"Just imagine, racial tension is high, some white cop shoots an unarmed black or hispanic kid, the local blacks or hispanics are in an uproar, start rioting. Your little white face is a beacon just beckoning them towards you, What are you gonna do? Well, with this baby, 50 rounds in the clip, guaranteed to fire everytime you pull the trigger, you could quite easily perch yourself atop your roof, get yourself all comfy and start pickin' those little black or hispanic b'stards off, C'mon, you owe it to yourself, your wife and kids, your white neighbors to have one of these babies. And if you buy this now, I'll even throw in a couple of grenades. Woah baby, you know you need this."

You grinning from ear to ear.
"Fuck yeah, can't put a price on my family's life, I don't care what this semi-auto costs, yeah baby!"

Personally, I can't see any reason whatsoever for me or my neighbors to own an assault rifle. I feel society is much safer without them being sold to every immature Rambo wanna be.
[/quote]

Ha! Yup. Just like that.

The religion of one age, is the literary entertainment of the next.
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24-04-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(23-04-2014 02:19 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 01:59 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Some people talk shit, but it doesn't make it so. How are you "sure" there are many texans that would love a gun battle? This seems to me to be a fairly ignorant statement as to how actual texans behave. Where are you getting your information? From the media? Yeah, that's an accurate description of our gun culture... Dodgy
By talking to people like you, who advocate being the hero, getting in a gun fight and saving others.

Stevil, most of the time you are rational, but not this time. This is completely irrational and an unfair characterization of what INMIY is saying. You, me, and everyone else has a basic right to your own life and have a right to defend yourself, or defend someone incapable of defending themselves (your spouse, etc.). Its not being a vigilante to use deadly force when in imminent danger. Its not "being the hero"...its being alive.


(23-04-2014 01:59 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Saying "having guns increases the potential of a gun fight" is ridiculous.
You can't have a gun fight without a gun, so by definition (regardless of the actual statistics) having a gun takes the likelyhood of having a gun fight from 0% to some higher percent. It's disingenuous.
Quote:It's not disingenuous, it's 100% accurate.

No, it is disingenuous, because its an obvious tautology. Try this one. Having a uterus increases the likelihood of it getting pregnant, because all people who have gotten pregnant, have a uterus.

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24-04-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(24-04-2014 11:49 AM)=jesse= Wrote:  In my ongoing conversation with you, we were discussing why civilian in a civilised country needs an AK..

I can imagine the gleam in your arms dealer salesman as he makes his pitch to you:
"Just imagine, racial tension is high, some white cop shoots an unarmed black or hispanic kid, the local blacks or hispanics are in an uproar, start rioting. Your little white face is a beacon just beckoning them towards you, What are you gonna do? Well, with this baby, 50 rounds in the clip, guaranteed to fire everytime you pull the trigger, you could quite easily perch yourself atop your roof, get yourself all comfy and start pickin' those little black or hispanic b'stards off, C'mon, you owe it to yourself, your wife and kids, your white neighbors to have one of these babies. And if you buy this now, I'lleven throw in a couple of grenades. Woah baby, you know you need this."

You grinning from ear to ear.
"Fuck yeah, can't put a price on my family's life, I don't care what this semi-auto costs, yeah baby!"

Personally, I can't see any reason whatsoever for me or my neighbors to own an assault rifle. I feel society is much safer without them being sold to every immature Rambo wanna be.


Ha! Yup. Just like that.

fix this, Jesse. I can't tell which is your reply and which is the quote.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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24-04-2014, 12:22 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 12:40 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
Stevil,

Your complete ignorance on gun manufacturing, and gun parts, has lead you to be of the mindset that any gun that looks or sounds scary must be dangerous. Semi-auto, assault, double action, full metal jacket, hollow point, it all sounds scary if you don't know what it means.

You understand that hollywood is hollywood, and real life is real life, correct? The guns and explosions you see on TV are NOT real. Gas tanks don't explode when pinged by a bullet and cars don't flip on their roof when the tank blows.

I'm willing to bet you would want to ban a Barrel Shroud because it makes the good look scary, yet you have no idea what it does. Yes, to an uneducated eye, the gun suddenly looks like an assault rifle (because you don't really know what an assault rifle looks like). But in reality, its just not the case. Lets just get this out there since you don't seem to understand. An AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle. The "AR" does not stand for Assault Rifle, nor does it stand for Automatic Rifle. It stands for ArmaLite rifle, which is the company that first developed it in the 1950s. An AR-15 is not capable of firing automatically. Now that THAT is out of the way....


[Image: barrel_shroud_0994print.jpg]

on another note...can you spot the "real gun" in this picture?

[Image: L-Pink-guns-web.jpg]


or how about this picture?

[Image: 127246-128682.jpg]

answer: they are all real guns. the way the gun looks does not affect its functionality.

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24-04-2014, 01:10 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 01:14 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(24-04-2014 12:02 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 02:19 PM)Stevil Wrote:  By talking to people like you, who advocate being the hero, getting in a gun fight and saving others.

Stevil, most of the time you are rational, but not this time. This is completely irrational and an unfair characterization of what INMIY is saying. You, me, and everyone else has a basic right to your own life and have a right to defend yourself, or defend someone incapable of defending themselves (your spouse, etc.). Its not being a vigilante to use deadly force when in imminent danger. Its not "being the hero"...its being alive.
I'm only going on what is being said in this thread.
INMIY was talking about gangs doing vandalism, stealing cars etc. What has that to do with defending your own life?

INMIY initially discussed owning a semi auto for target practice, then all of a sudden got upset at me for discussing guns from that perspective.

The guy suggested he might need a semi auto in the instance of racial fuelled riots, citing the Korean incident, now he accuses me of calling him a racist.

I'm just trying to directly address the points being brought up. There is nothing irrational in what I am saying. I have been living my entire life in a country where guns are restricted. People don't own semi automatics, people dont wander around the place packing pistols under their jackets. I have never felt in fear of my life, and I have never felt the need for a gun to defend myself. I do not get attacked by bigger stronger people, I have no fear that people of a different race are going to riot and attack me. If I did live with such fears, if I did have such a fear that I felt I needed to go to a shop and buy a semi automatic in order to kill lots of people, I certainly wouldn't go to a gun shop grinning ear to ear. I would be disgusted that I would need such a weapon. I would find it a horrific situation and I would feel that the most rational thing to do would be to move myself and my family to a more civilised and peaceful country than to take the irrational stance of buying such a gun in a futile hope that myself with a semi auto could stave off an "army" of armed rioters.

I feel that I am much safer not owning a gun and that myself, my family and children are much safer having guns restricted in society such that they aren't prevalent should someone have a moment of depression or aggression and decide to go on a rampage.
(24-04-2014 12:02 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(23-04-2014 01:59 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Saying "having guns increases the potential of a gun fight" is ridiculous.
You can't have a gun fight without a gun, so by definition (regardless of the actual statistics) having a gun takes the likelyhood of having a gun fight from 0% to some higher percent. It's disingenuous.
Quote:It's not disingenuous, it's 100% accurate.

No, it is disingenuous, because its an obvious tautology. Try this one. Having a uterus increases the likelihood of it getting pregnant, because all people who have gotten pregnant, have a uterus.
I will never get in a gun fight because I don't own a gun.
If a person pulls out a gun in a mall, I will run or hide rather than engage in a gun fight. If a person makes me angry I will never be tempted to pull a gun out and shoot them. If I find my wife in bed with another, I will not have the option of pulling a gun. If a person pulls a gun on me and demands my wallet, I will not be tempted to engage in a gun fight. If I catch a person stealing my car, I will not be tempted to shoot them dead.

The stupidness of people saying "Oh but people are polite at gun shows" is just irrational propaganda. People can be polite without guns. I have been to many Easter/Christmas parades, boat shows ... and people are generally polite. I go to town, go to libraries, go grocery shopping and people are generally polite. If they aren't polite, then so what. I walk away.
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24-04-2014, 01:20 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(24-04-2014 12:22 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Stevil,

Your complete ignorance on gun manufacturing, and gun parts, has lead you to be of the mindset that any gun that looks or sounds scary must be dangerous. Semi-auto, assault, double action, full metal jacket, hollow point, it all sounds scary if you don't know what it means.

You understand that hollywood is hollywood, and real life is real life, correct? The guns and explosions you see on TV are NOT real. Gas tanks don't explode when pinged by a bullet and cars don't flip on their roof when the tank blows.

I'm willing to bet you would want to ban a Barrel Shroud
You haven't addressed anything that I have actually said.
You have simply built up a caricature of me and attacked that.
I have never discussed gun parts, hollow point ammo, or Barrel Shrouds...
I have never said that gas tanks would explode or that cars would flip.

Oh well.
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24-04-2014, 01:34 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(24-04-2014 01:20 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 12:22 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Stevil,

Your complete ignorance on gun manufacturing, and gun parts, has lead you to be of the mindset that any gun that looks or sounds scary must be dangerous. Semi-auto, assault, double action, full metal jacket, hollow point, it all sounds scary if you don't know what it means.

You understand that hollywood is hollywood, and real life is real life, correct? The guns and explosions you see on TV are NOT real. Gas tanks don't explode when pinged by a bullet and cars don't flip on their roof when the tank blows.

I'm willing to bet you would want to ban a Barrel Shroud
You haven't addressed anything that I have actually said.
You have simply built up a caricature of me and attacked that.
I have never discussed gun parts, hollow point ammo, or Barrel Shrouds...
I have never said that gas tanks would explode or that cars would flip.

Oh well.

I never said that you said that. The overall impression that I'm getting from you is that you are coming from a place of complete and utter ignorance about the workings of a gun, in order to be able to label someone with one gun vs another to be inherently more dangerous.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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