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Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
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25-04-2014, 04:50 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(25-04-2014 05:39 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Based on everything you've told us thusfar, it will be the last thing you ever do.

I promise you. Whomever breaks into your house is not empty handed.
It's rare for home intruders here to carry guns.
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25-04-2014, 05:08 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(24-04-2014 09:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 08:11 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I disagree with your strange definition. Criminals are gun owners too, we can't simply wave them off. Many criminals have come into guns via legitimate means.

It is not a 'strange definition'; legal gun owner is what is meant by gun owner in these debates.

Criminals do not use their own legally acquired guns when committing crimes unless they have the IQ of a kumquat.
Labeling someone as a criminal is an interesting concept.

A non criminal gun owner sees someone stealing their car, They point their gun and tell the thief to stop. The thief carries on driving, the non criminal gun owner pulls the trigger killing the thief, now there are two criminals one is a dead thief, the other is a murderer.

Also in my country if you shoot an unarmed drunk girl who has stumbled onto your property then you become a murderer.

Now if a person premeditates a crime where they intend to use a gun to scare people into giving them money then it does make sense that they use a gun that doesn't trace back to themselves (just in case things get messy and they actually fire the gun). Now where does a petty down on his luck thief get a gun from? Through gun shows, private sales, underground stolen gun market?
Where do these stolen guns come from? The burgled houses of legal gun owners.

The legal purchase and subsequent theft process is all just a way of making guns available to the "criminals".

But anyway, if you are going to ignore illegal gun owners or even irresponsible gun owners then a qualifier is necessary. It is disingenuous to say gun owners and ignore the criminals.

(24-04-2014 09:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:Not all gun owners are responsible.

And not all car owners are responsible, and not all drivers are responsible, and not all drinkers are responsible, and not all factory owners are responsible, and ...
Cars are needed to get to work, they are build for transportation of people from one place to another.
An assault rifle is built for fighting wars, for killing people and is very effective for going on killing sprees in schools, malls etc. What purpose does a "normal" person living in a civilised country need an assault rifle?

(24-04-2014 09:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:
Cars are useful to get from A to B. Guns are useful to ...Kill people.

And guns are used to protect people.
Seat belts are used to protect people by keeping them from going through the windscreen of their rapidly decelerating car.
A gun protects a person by killing other people, but also is a very useful weapon when wanting to mug, rape or murder people.
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25-04-2014, 05:09 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(24-04-2014 08:39 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 08:06 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Well that's the most logical thing. If I hear so much as a thud that could be my cat, I GO GUNS'A'BLAZIN! YEEEEHAWWWWW! PEW PEW.

I'm amazed at all the people that think this is really what people do though.

I know right! That damn cat is lucky it has nine lives.

Btw - I had a visual of you stumbling out of bed, fixing your fingers into fake guns, tying the bedsheet around your neck like a cape and going "pew pew" with your fake shots.
As professed by Cathy, see an unarmed drunk person not responding to commands so start shooting Pew, pew, Yeeehawww.
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25-04-2014, 05:23 PM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2014 05:32 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(24-04-2014 08:36 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 04:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  . I feel that it would be more likely to be a drunk person, but I have no data to back that up.

Most break ins are not accidental. There is data to back that up. So there's that.
I'm talking about breakins where the home owner is at home.
Clearly home invasion vs drunk mistaken identity.

By my thinking, if guns are prevelant in society then the intruders will be much more likely to come with guns.
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25-04-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(25-04-2014 05:23 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 08:36 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Most break ins are not accidental. There is data to back that up. So there's that.
I'm talking about breakins where the home owner is at home.
Clearly home invasion vs drunk mistaken identity.

By my thinking, if guns are prevelant in society then the intruders will be much more likely to come with guns.

Your thinking is faulty. A criminal can get their hands on guns whether or not guns are restricted.

What don't you understand? Restricting guns doesn't keep guns out of criminal hands? It keeps it out of otherwise responsible law abiding citizens hands.

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25-04-2014, 06:00 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(25-04-2014 04:50 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(25-04-2014 05:39 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Based on everything you've told us thusfar, it will be the last thing you ever do.

I promise you. Whomever breaks into your house is not empty handed.
It's rare for home intruders here to carry guns.

He can have a knife, a crowbar, or any number of weapons.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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25-04-2014, 06:03 PM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2014 06:07 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(25-04-2014 05:23 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 08:36 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Most break ins are not accidental. There is data to back that up. So there's that.
I'm talking about breakins where the home owner is at home.
Clearly home invasion vs drunk mistaken identity.

By my thinking, if guns are prevelant in society then the intruders will be much more likely to come with guns.

And there is still data to back up the fact that most break ins - irrespective of whether the owner is home (really, as if that makes any difference?) - vs accidental drunks

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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25-04-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(25-04-2014 05:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 08:39 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I know right! That damn cat is lucky it has nine lives.

Btw - I had a visual of you stumbling out of bed, fixing your fingers into fake guns, tying the bedsheet around your neck like a cape and going "pew pew" with your fake shots.
As professed by Cathy, see an unarmed drunk person not responding to commands so start shooting Pew, pew, Yeeehawww.

Clearly you don't get that I was joking Dodgy

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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25-04-2014, 06:21 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
Shooting another person doesn't necessarily make you a criminal.

If someone was stealing my car, with my daughter in the backseat and I shot him, I would not face charges.

It sounds like you are defending criminals. Like saying "criminals mean you no harm. Shooting them would be wrong."

What kinda fucked up logic is that?

Further. Here is a fact for you: 3 crimes are halted by guns for every 1 that is commited with them.

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25-04-2014, 06:27 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(25-04-2014 05:08 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 09:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is not a 'strange definition'; legal gun owner is what is meant by gun owner in these debates.

Criminals do not use their own legally acquired guns when committing crimes unless they have the IQ of a kumquat.
Labeling someone as a criminal is an interesting concept.

A non criminal gun owner sees someone stealing their car, They point their gun and tell the thief to stop. The thief carries on driving, the non criminal gun owner pulls the trigger killing the thief, now there are two criminals one is a dead thief, the other is a murderer.

Also in my country if you shoot an unarmed drunk girl who has stumbled onto your property then you become a murderer.

Now if a person premeditates a crime where they intend to use a gun to scare people into giving them money then it does make sense that they use a gun that doesn't trace back to themselves (just in case things get messy and they actually fire the gun). Now where does a petty down on his luck thief get a gun from? Through gun shows, private sales, underground stolen gun market?
Where do these stolen guns come from? The burgled houses of legal gun owners.

The legal purchase and subsequent theft process is all just a way of making guns available to the "criminals".

But anyway, if you are going to ignore illegal gun owners or even irresponsible gun owners then a qualifier is necessary. It is disingenuous to say gun owners and ignore the criminals.

(24-04-2014 09:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  And not all car owners are responsible, and not all drivers are responsible, and not all drinkers are responsible, and not all factory owners are responsible, and ...
Cars are needed to get to work, they are build for transportation of people from one place to another.
An assault rifle is built for fighting wars, for killing people and is very effective for going on killing sprees in schools, malls etc. What purpose does a "normal" person living in a civilised country need an assault rifle?

(24-04-2014 09:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  And guns are used to protect people.
Seat belts are used to protect people by keeping them from going through the windscreen of their rapidly decelerating car.
A gun protects a person by killing other people, but also is a very useful weapon when wanting to mug, rape or murder people.

You aren't actually understanding any of the posts, are you? Why do you keep talking about assault rifles?

Criminals are not 'gun owners', they are people illegally in possession of a firearm, usually a handgun.

Using a handgun in self defense does not make one a criminal.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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