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Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
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28-04-2014, 08:09 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(28-04-2014 07:57 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(28-04-2014 07:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  I (and others) have repeatedly corrected your misunderstandings, but you refuse to listen.
You havent corrected any misunderstandings.
You merely respond with snark and personal attacks.

I don't see the point of your style.

You are entitled to your opinion, such as it is. Drinking Beverage

However, I suggest you reread the thread.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-04-2014, 09:40 PM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 09:44 PM by PoolBoyG.)
Exclamation RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
Following comment isn't directed at anyone particular. It came out long, so I understand the knee jerk reaction to ignore it. "If it's not concise, it's not worth reading."

We gather here on this forum because there are people in this world that not only hold irrational beliefs, but very harmful ones. And we wonder how can they hold onto something that's so irrational, so harmful, and so humiliating when considering they're being manipulated for profit by certain organizations.

This thread might not be a religious issue, but it's almost indistinguishable.

I understand firearms can be a cause for sense of identity and power. And a sense of deep comfort. But like religion, it's false, and harmful to everyone involved.

We don't live in a society of well regulated militias. You can try to twist the words "well" "regulated" and "militia" but that's dishonest.
You can try to compare firearms to swimming pools, or cars, but that's dishonest.
You can believe that firearms cause more good than harm, but that's dishonest.
You can believe that firearms save more lives than take or destroy, but that's dishonest.
You can believe society will collapse without firearms, but that's dishonest.
You can point to Switzerland as a model, but that's dishonest. You're ignoring every other first world country, and ignoring Switzerland's armed are government militias - people recruited/paid/trained by the government.
You can try to think a sea of firearms will save you from "the government". But you're following the same corrupting and undemocratic forces that want and profit from flooding the country in private firearms. You and we are the government - of, for, and by - act like it.

This is some deep religious like apologetic's and willful ignorance. Tens of thousands dying each year, for nothing... that's not acceptable.

Like with religion, look to the other secular countries in the world. Take them as a role model. Or at least an idea of what's possible, and what could be the norm.

Fight the spread or religion/firearms, fight the normalization of religion/firearms, fight the apologetic's for religion/firearms.

Just because i'm an atheist, doesn't mean a religious person has to do everything else I say. Just because i'm against weapons proliferation, doesn't mean you should listen to anything else I say. It doesn't mean i'm better in any way. But just recognize this one issue. "What is the reality of situation, despite what I desperately believe or want to believe?"

Side note: We need more "professional atheist" types not only for religious issues, but issues such as these that seem equally religious. Beliefs that are irrational, harmful, communal, and institutionally supported Consider
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28-04-2014, 10:00 PM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 11:16 PM by Phaedrus.)
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
TLDR: We're wrong because we're wrong and we're all liars. That about it?

That's why I get pissy in gun control debates, all the full-of-it pricks who pretend to be master psychologists with a deep insight into the opponents' reasons for holding their stance. Take your condescension, fold it til' it's all sharp corners, and shove it.


Also, I like how you mentioned honesty. Your point about "fighting normalization" reminds me of a certain few other people who've been on here, arguing for gun control, just a *little bit* of gun control, like banning magazines over ten rounds and introducing a shit ton of paperwork, because that would somehow stop school shootings (it wouldn't). When it's pretty clear from their arguments that they really want to "fight normalization". If you have to hide the true intent of your arguments, then I'd say you're probably on the wrong side (that's the main reason I'm pro-choice). You're honest about your ultimate goal though; I like that. Refreshing, after all the bullshit that's been on this forum before.


Anyway, your entire post is a Gish Gallop full of strawmen, so unless you want to actually sit down and make an argument instead of just proclaim how evil and harmful gun owners are, I don't feel I have to respond to most of that horse shit.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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29-04-2014, 01:09 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
I have a question.

If you are an anti gun control person. A person who never leaves home without their handgun, a person whom feels they need a AR or AK at home to keep them and their family safe.

Then do you take your family on overseas holidays?
Or do you find it too much of a risk to not have guns for the duration of your overseas trip?
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29-04-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
I also support the right to arm bears!


Seriously, there is no study that could ever prove a conection between the availability of firearms and homicide rates.

I use to post extensively on the subject in other forums because I did a shitload of research on the subject.

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29-04-2014, 01:20 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(29-04-2014 01:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If you are an anti gun control person.
I am, of sorts.
Quote:A person who never leaves home without their handgun,
Nope
Quote: a person whom feels they need a AR or AK at home to keep them and their family safe.
Nope



The stereotyping is also nice.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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29-04-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(29-04-2014 01:20 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  The stereotyping is also nice.
I was just wondering, so thought better to ask than to wonder.

Because it seems to me a person carries guns everywhere they go because they see great risk in going out in public without guns.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here.

If they see going out in public so risky (and if they think a society of people without guns is dangerous) then would they be willing to take the risk of traveling to such a society and going out in public without "protection"?
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29-04-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
The type of person you describe is rarer than you'd think, and the mindset isn't one of constant fear, but of preparedness.

I keep a couple gallons of bottled water in the trunk of my car at all times. If I get stranded someplace with no cell reception, that water could save my life. Now, I don't normally drive in the middle of nowhere in the desert. But I have done it in the past, and could do it in the future, and if I were to be stranded out there I'd really want that water. I could wait to buy the water until I *know* I'm gonna be out in the desert; but I might forget. Better to always have the water there in case I need it, rather than risk forgetting it and not having it when I do need it.

That's the concept behind concealed carry and home defense. I don't fully subscribe to that, but I think that trying to paint it as some fear culture is in most cases a malicious mis-characterization. Plus there are people who *do* live in a dangerous area and can't afford to move out. In that case a $500 investment in a gun could save their life or property, versus the asinine suggestion of telling them to move, which may not be possible. In those cases the environment is the justification; so obviously if they went on vacation someplace they would likely see less reason to carry a gun (if they could afford a vacation; and in that instance I would recommend they leave their guns and other valuables with a trusted friend).

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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29-04-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(29-04-2014 01:36 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  I don't fully subscribe to that, but I think that trying to paint it as some fear culture is in most cases a malicious mis-characterization.
That's not what I was doing.
Would I go for a drive in a car without a seat belt, probably not, unless I was desperate. I would ordinarily choose to avoid riding in that car because I would see the risk as too great, the odds as too high.

But from discussion with some anti gun control people it seems to me some people see the risk too great, the odds as too high regarding having a society without guns and personally being without guns themselves. I was just wondering for those people if this view of the risks inhibits them with regards to overseas travel.
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29-04-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
You'd have to ask them. Sorry mate, I'm not one of those people, and I think they're rarer than you imply.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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