Poll: Do you support the right to bear arms?
Yes
No
Keep Hunting Rifles Only
Pistols but not AR(s) + 3
Assualt Rifles + 3 & 4
[Show Results]
Note: This is a public poll, other users will be able to see what you voted for.
Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-05-2014, 01:47 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(01-05-2014 01:33 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-05-2014 01:24 PM)=jesse= Wrote:  And I didn't say women won't be raped or abused. But a gun can give them a better chance of fighting off an assailant.
A gun also gives a woman a better chance of being murdered by her partner
The facts on guns and domestic violence

Quote:A gun is the weapon most commonly used in domestic homicides. In fact, more than
three times as many women are murdered by guns used by their husbands or intimate acquaintances
than are killed by strangers’ guns, knives or other weapons combined

Quote:A study of women physically abused by current or former intimate partners found a five-fold
increased risk of the partner murdering the woman when the partner owned a gun.

Thanks for the link (not being sarcastic). I read quickly, so maybe I missed it, but I also didn't see in there any statistics about the individuals, their relationships, or reasons for murdering their spouse. I think it still stands that a woman at least has the (not sure what the right word is to use here) option or capability of using a firearm if she is attacked. It could go down a million and one ways. I don't presume to know them all. But if a 6ft 200lb man broke into my home when I wasn't there, I feel better knowing my wife has access to a firearm.

To the stats, I do find it a bit ironic that at the end, the link says endabuse.org. End abuse. To me, that is like reading that if we get rid of guns, we get rid of abuse. Is that study trying to make a cause and effect correlation? That guns lead to spousal abuse/ murdered spouses? If the guns weren't there, would the spouse still be alive? Maybe, maybe not. I wonder of those though, how many husbands shot because they caught their wife cheating, had mental instability issues, former criminal history, etc.

I'd say that reading that, I'd say the issue of men abusing and killing their wives is relevant than what firearm they used to do the deed with.

The religion of one age, is the literary entertainment of the next.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-05-2014, 02:30 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(13-08-2012 06:42 AM)BnW Wrote:  The amount of guns we have in the US is completely out of control. The idea that we should all be armed and involving ourselves in this wild west fantasy shootouts is criminally irresponsible and I was appalled that some elected officials were asking why people weren't armed and shooting back after the Aurora, CO shootings. Because in a dark room filled with tear gas, what would have helped was more people shooting off guns. Because that was going to result in fewer casualties. Right.

The Aurora theater was full of unarmed people. Armed law enforcement intervened, not citizens. Isn't that the scenario anti-gun advocates are fighting for?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-05-2014, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2014 02:51 PM by wazzel.)
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(01-05-2014 01:33 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-05-2014 01:24 PM)=jesse= Wrote:  And I didn't say women won't be raped or abused. But a gun can give them a better chance of fighting off an assailant.
A gun also gives a woman a better chance of being murdered by her partner
The facts on guns and domestic violence

Quote:A gun is the weapon most commonly used in domestic homicides. In fact, more than
three times as many women are murdered by guns used by their husbands or intimate acquaintances
than are killed by strangers’ guns, knives or other weapons combined

Quote:A study of women physically abused by current or former intimate partners found a five-fold
increased risk of the partner murdering the woman when the partner owned a gun.

It does not mean those women would not have been killed by other means. Removing a gun does not make them safer if they are in a toxic relationship with a violent man.

I had to sit for a domestic murder trial and the weapon used was a kitchen knife, by the female go figure.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-05-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
Stevil

Here is a near article that is along my reasoning that violent crime is more than just about the gun.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/strict-g...crime2.htm

A little quote from the piece.

Quote:.......The point is, the "more guns = more violence" argument and the "gun ownership = decreased crime" argument both sidestep the complicating socioeconomic, cultural and psychological factors affecting violent crime. Economic disparities within countries, along with periods of economic downturn, drive up crime and homicides, and violent crimes occurs four times more often in countries with wide income gaps. While economic prosperity tends to decrease violent crime, crime itself can depress community development, perpetuating a cycle of poverty and violence [source: UNODC]......

.....The only clear message in this complex issue is that violent crime overall does not increase with the availability of guns, but gun-related violence does [sources: Kates and Mauser; Liptak; Luo]. In 1996, for example, you were far more likely to be shot to death in America than in any of 35 other wealthy nations, but you were also less likely to be the victim of murder, or of violent crime in general [sources: Killias, van Kesteren and Rindlisbacher].......
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-05-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(01-05-2014 01:47 PM)=jesse= Wrote:  I think it still stands that a woman at least has the (not sure what the right word is to use here) option or capability of using a firearm if she is attacked.
In order to give women guns, you also make guns available to their partners.
I think the question is, does making guns available to all improve the safety of women or reduce the safety of women?
I think that most rapes, most physical abuse on a woman is via a familiar (most likely partner) rather than a stranger.

Statistically speaking are woman safer with or without gun restriction?


(01-05-2014 01:47 PM)=jesse= Wrote:  To the stats, I do find it a bit ironic that at the end, the link says endabuse.org.
The domain in the link to the article is futureswithoutviolence. I assume they tackle all sorts of violence, not just gun violence. It just happens that this article is focused on guns.

(01-05-2014 01:47 PM)=jesse= Wrote:  Is that study trying to make a cause and effect correlation? That guns lead to spousal abuse/ murdered spouses?
Yes I think they do make a case for that.

refer to the following
Quote:A study of women physically abused by current or former intimate partners found a five-fold
increased risk of the partner murdering the woman when the partner owned a gun.
I don't know of the validity of the study, no doubt there are probably studies out there that suggest contrary to this study.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-05-2014, 09:41 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(01-05-2014 02:56 PM)wazzel Wrote:  http://people.howstuffworks.com/strict-g...crime2.htm

I agree with the following:
Quote:the data involved in researching connections between gun laws, gun ownership, gun crime and non-gun crime are frequently mixed, murky, misrecorded and difficult to compare
It is very easy to find conflicting articles.
There is much meme's and propaganda on both sides of the argument making it very hard to determine truthful statistics.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-05-2014, 03:55 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2014 04:07 AM by Cathym112.)
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(01-05-2014 12:29 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  
(01-05-2014 08:02 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I really want to know why a 4 year old girl hit by a stray bullet is considerably more tragic than a 4 year old run down by a drunk driver.

Why is gun violence viewed with more outrage than any other violence?

Drunk driving kills and injures more innocent people than any gun violence, yet, we do not call for prohibition of alcohol or automobile use. Why?

A very poor comparison. You might as well try to compare food to firearms, since people choke.

1. Millions upon millions of cars are used daily.
2. Millions of lives are uplifted via mobility, economically it's a necessity, lives are indeed saved.
3. To further expand on the above, A CARS PURPOSE IS NOT TO SHOOT OR MURDER PEOPLE.

Firearms are a net negative... extremely so. Lining the pockets of manufacturers and lobbyists, and stroking the ego of the paranoid, and aiding racists/murders/criminals is not a justification for the tens of thousands murdered each year.

We have other countries, right now, that don't swim in a sea of firearms. Who are more educated, richer than the US (person to person), secular. And who are complete allies of the US. They make up the majority of the "first world". There are other realities to choose and pick from, and work towards than apologizing for this one.

It's a great comparison. A gun's main purpose in the hands of ordinary civilians is not to kill anyone. It's purpose is to fire a bullet. After that it depends on the holder of the guns

You wanna talk about manufacturers and big bad corporations lining pockets? How about a car manufacturing delaying making a recall of a defective part because it's cheaper just to pay the insurance claims?

Further, the purpose of driving drunk is not to uplift anyone, or be any benefit to society. Don't confuse driving with drunk driving. It's a drunk, misusing a tool (a car) to injure someone.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-05-2014, 06:38 AM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(01-05-2014 09:41 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-05-2014 02:56 PM)wazzel Wrote:  http://people.howstuffworks.com/strict-g...crime2.htm

I agree with the following:
Quote:the data involved in researching connections between gun laws, gun ownership, gun crime and non-gun crime are frequently mixed, murky, misrecorded and difficult to compare
It is very easy to find conflicting articles.
There is much meme's and propaganda on both sides of the argument making it very hard to determine truthful statistics.

I agree with that point also. Gun bring out passion on both sides of the argument and inhibints reasonable actions from being taken. There are lots of reasonable things that could be done to make the coutry safer while continueing to allow ownership, but one side sees any regulations as unacceptable and the other side will settle for nothing less than a ban.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-05-2014, 07:10 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(02-05-2014 06:38 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(01-05-2014 09:41 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I agree with the following:
It is very easy to find conflicting articles.
There is much meme's and propaganda on both sides of the argument making it very hard to determine truthful statistics.

I agree with that point also. Gun bring out passion on both sides of the argument and inhibints reasonable actions from being taken. There are lots of reasonable things that could be done to make the coutry safer while continueing to allow ownership, but one side sees any regulations as unacceptable and the other side will settle for nothing less than a ban.

I'm all for regulation. Sensible regulation. Not regulation based on what makes a gun "look" scary (ie, barrel shrouds)

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Cathym112's post
02-05-2014, 07:17 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(02-05-2014 07:10 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 06:38 AM)wazzel Wrote:  I agree with that point also. Gun bring out passion on both sides of the argument and inhibints reasonable actions from being taken. There are lots of reasonable things that could be done to make the coutry safer while continueing to allow ownership, but one side sees any regulations as unacceptable and the other side will settle for nothing less than a ban.

I'm all for regulation. Sensible regulation. Not regulation based on what makes a gun "look" scary (ie, barrel shrouds)

Tell me about it. Sensible regulation is fine. People are too reactionary, and laws are enacted from the perspective of restricting what "looks scary" or "seems intimidating" rather than what ought to be regulated.

Case in point, I have a large folding knife on me at all times. Not as a weapon, but because a pocket knife is damn useful in everyday life, and there are nicer production folders in the over 3" range. It tickles me pink that this is completely legal in my state, and yet an automatic knife over 2" is a felony concealed weapon, and a fixed blade of any length if covered in any part by any garment is a dealing concealed weapon.

There are 6+" bladed folding knives someone can stick in their back pocket and walk down the street, but if they had a 6" Ka-Bar and legally open carry it: but if their shirt hem touched the handle, it would be a felony concealed dagger.

What the hell? How does that make any sense?

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: