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Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
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13-08-2012, 12:34 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(13-08-2012 12:32 PM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  Gun don't kill people, people kill people. <<yeah right and I'm santa claus. However I do like the idea of owning a gun if only to blow off steam at a range.

And, if you had to leave the gun at the range, under lock and key, when you weren't blowing off steam? My name is Red Celt and I approve of this message. Shy
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13-08-2012, 12:35 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
[Image: HijackToNevilleC.jpg]

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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13-08-2012, 12:40 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
Restrict gun use.

Guns kill, and spoons make you fat! Consider


some good people shouldn't own guns just like some good people shouldn't drive cars.

Especially when they have no clue

Buying a gun should never be an impulsive deed. Restriction deals with that problem. If you want a gun however. (shooting it is fun) you should be able to buy one. Again, this is possible under gun restriction. If you have no illegal intend, you should have no problem registering yourself.

Why do I know this.
Belgium has one of the most strict gun laws in the world, Invoking it rendered many previous gun overs into a form of illegality. unless thy registered themselves. You need to do an exam on gun safety, and gun handling. much like a driverslicense. only then you are granted a permit. You are regularly checked on whether you still meet the criteria.

Nice detail...
I personally own a permit.

I'm planning on buying an FN FNP9

Don't ban guns.
Ban shoelaces
It's what killed my parents

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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13-08-2012, 12:52 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(13-08-2012 11:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  That is the point. It is the society's propensity to crime, violence, lawlessness - it's not the fact of firearms. The U.K. has violent crime. The fact that a lower proportion of it involves firearms doesn't mean shit.

So, you're argument is, basically, that Americans simply have higher proclivities towards violent crimes?

Total hogwash.

As for gun control having an impact on gun deaths, here is a graph that tells an interesting story:

[Image: preventionEDIT.jpg]

One thing that is not obvious from that graph is which states have the tightest gun control laws. In case you are wondering which they are, I'll give you a hint: they are the ones sitting on the low end of that scale. you want to argue that is a simple correlation and does not imply causation, you are welcome to do so. We can then overlap the same type of measurement on the rest of the world and I bet you any amount of money that the fewer guns in a society, the fewer gun related deaths and even gun related crimes.

The US has something like 50% of the world's guns. It is not a coincidence that we also lead the planet in violent crimes. And, it's not because Americans are more prone to violence.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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13-08-2012, 01:08 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
This just in:
2:59 p.m. ET: "Multiple" people, including an undetermined number of police officers, were shot when a gunman opened fire Monday near the campus of Texas A&M University in College Station, police and university officials said.

The gunman was in custody, College Station police said. Fire officials told NBC News that none of the injuries was serious or life-threatening.

Few details were immediately available. A College Station police spokeswoman told The Dallas Morning News that there were multiple injuries" at the scene, "including officers."

I just hope we make it quick to the cooler Autumn weather. Shy

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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13-08-2012, 01:09 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
I don't understand Chas' objection to my statement. Are you implying that having guns is why the violent crime rate has declined? If so, I would argue that is not so. I would actually argue that tighter gun control laws and better law enforcement practices are a bigger contributor.

People keep throwing around statistics implying a direct correlation with violence and death. The stats are observations that may have multiple causes, and the presence or absence of guns and/or gun laws is only one piece of the puzzle. Law enforcement practices, the judicial system, incarceration vs. rehabilitation, proportion of the population at or below the poverty level.

I won't argue against guns having been implicitly designed to kill, so to say that guns don't kill people is stupid. Guns kill people and spoons DO make people fat, they do so because the people using them abuse them and use them to aid their abuse. Are they the sole cause of fat assness and death? No, humans must be involved in some way. If someone wants to kill someone, they will, but guns sure do make it easier, I won't argue against that.

The issue is how much control does the government get over me and my life? I can understand the need for restriction and requiring permits as well as outlawing certain types of firearms and accessories, but to say that I outright cannot have something or do something that does no harm to others (when used properly, just like a car) is preposterous. I suppose the same argument could be made for most narcotics, but there is no proper way to use drugs that does not harm your own body, there is a way to properly use a gun.

Evolve
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13-08-2012, 01:12 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
WTF. I have to admit that it appears that allowing people to have guns in Texas didn't appear to deter this guy.

I would also say that I adamantly oppose concealable firearms. If you are going to carry it, you should be required to display it so that everyone knows you have it.

(13-08-2012 01:08 PM)kim Wrote:  This just in:
2:59 p.m. ET: "Multiple" people, including an undetermined number of police officers, were shot when a gunman opened fire Monday near the campus of Texas A&M University in College Station, police and university officials said.

The gunman was in custody, College Station police said. Fire officials told NBC News that none of the injuries was serious or life-threatening.

Few details were immediately available. A College Station police spokeswoman told The Dallas Morning News that there were multiple injuries" at the scene, "including officers."

I just hope we make it quick to the cooler Autumn weather. Shy

Evolve
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13-08-2012, 01:38 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
Just goin on record here.....last night I had to shoot a skunk. It took up residence under my chicken coop. If I hadn't shot it, it would reproduce and I'd have even more. Skunks mean dead chickens, no eggs, and dogs that suffer from swollen eyes and burned throats. Not to mention the smell that forces me to leave the dogs outside if they get sprayed.

I'm not addressing the violence part of the discussion, and don't plan to. Been there done that. I'm simply pointing out that for some of us, a gun really is a necessity.


Now if only I could get my sights on that fox that comes and eats my laying hens I'd be a happy man.

Just visiting.

-SR
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13-08-2012, 02:04 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(13-08-2012 12:40 PM)Observer Wrote:  Don't ban guns.
Ban shoelaces
It's what killed my parents

Sad Still feel sad whenever I think about this. Hope you're remembering the good times nowadays...
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13-08-2012, 02:16 PM
RE: Atheists; Gun Rights Acknowledgement
(13-08-2012 01:38 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I'm not addressing the violence part of the discussion, and don't plan to. Been there done that. I'm simply pointing out that for some of us, a gun really is a necessity.

Now... if only there was a way of addressing vermin... like someone you could call to rid yourself of them... or some kind of trap-related mechanism...

I guess you'll have to make do with all of the gun deaths, instead.
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