Atheists Ignore Islamophobia at their Peril
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02-09-2012, 06:58 PM
RE: Atheists Ignore Islamophobia at their Peril
Hey, fst.

Explain to me how that has anything to do with anything.

This isn't a discussion about the ills of Islam. This is about treating humans as humans. That's exactly what Chas and I were discussing.

If you want to live by some kind of "kill them all, let God sort them out" mentality, then all I can do is appeal to your better nature and failing that, oppose you.

I'll say this one last time. Neither the author nor myself are saying that no one should criticise Islam nor are we saying that people should not advocate for reforms within Islam. Those are separate issues entirely. So any further counterarguments to the position "Muslims are facing Islamaphobia, some people deny that, both the Islamaphobia and the denial need to end, and Atheists have a vested interest in helping to end them both" that are based on the premise that "Islam is (or Muslims are) bad m'kay" will be summarily ignored. I am going to ignore anyone, from this sentence on, who suggests that that a ban on criticising Islam is what's being proposed because clearly they have read nothing; not my posts, not the article, nothing.

I invite people to reengage with the questions posed in the article.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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02-09-2012, 07:27 PM
RE: Atheists Ignore Islamophobia at their Peril
(02-09-2012 06:58 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, fst.

Explain to me how that has anything to do with anything.

This isn't a discussion about the ills of Islam. This is about treating humans as humans. That's exactly what Chas and I were discussing.

If you want to live by some kind of "kill them all, let God sort them out" mentality, then all I can do is appeal to your better nature and failing that, oppose you.

I'll say this one last time. Neither the author nor myself are saying that no one should criticise Islam nor are we saying that people should not advocate for reforms within Islam. Those are separate issues entirely. So any further counterarguments to the position "Muslims are facing Islamaphobia, some people deny that, both the Islamaphobia and the denial need to end, and Atheists have a vested interest in helping to end them both" that are based on the premise that "Islam is (or Muslims are) bad m'kay" will be summarily ignored. I am going to ignore anyone, from this sentence on, who suggests that that a ban on criticising Islam is what's being proposed because clearly they have read nothing; not my posts, not the article, nothing.

I invite people to reengage with the questions posed in the article.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Actually it's directly to the point.

I do not have a kill them all attitude, rather I support the atheists who leave islam.

However I can't think of a thing that doesn't insult them to a point of violence, other than women dressed up like ninjas.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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02-09-2012, 07:44 PM
RE: Atheists Ignore Islamophobia at their Peril
Hey, Fst.

1 - How is it directly to the point?

2 - I support Atheists who leave Islam too. But hpw does that link to this conversation?

3 - What?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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02-09-2012, 07:46 PM
RE: Atheists Ignore Islamophobia at their Peril
(02-09-2012 06:55 AM)Ghost Wrote:  In 2009 I traveled to London and decided one day to a walking tour of the South Bank. I visited the Globe, the Tate, the Royal Nat, the Millennium Wheel, all of the sites. I had my backpack on with a Canadian flag patch sewn to it and was snapping photos with my smartphone. I'm half white and half black, so my skin is dark and at the time, I wore a beard. Two Bobbies strolled up to me and stopped me on suspicion of terrorism. I'm not even joking. Before they realised that I was just a Canadian tourist, they were ready to pull me aside, detain me, strip search me, all manner of humiliation, all perfectly legal under the law; and they handed me documentation detailing their rights. They took down all of my information, where I was staying, who I knew, what I was doing in the country, and radioed it in to their dispatch. They then gave me a receipt. They told me if I was stopped on suspicion of terrorism again, that I could just show my receipt to let them know I had already been stopped and processed.

I wasn't pulled off a plane. I wasn't told I couldn't build a mosque somewhere. I didn't suffer rendition to another country. I wasn't tortured. I wasn't arrested at 15 and held in Guantanamo for nearly a decade. I wasn't told that I'm not actually a citizen on my own country. I wasn't beaten. I wasn't shot to death. I wasn't a lot of things.

It sounds like the cops made a reasonable inquiry, handled it well and sent you on your way. This is an example of something bad?

(02-09-2012 06:55 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Would you tolerate any one of those things if it happened to you?

Yes. I'd realize that policing against terrorism is very difficult and would thank them for their work. I'd realize that maybe I was taking photos of something sensitive without being aware of it, or perhaps it was random, or perhaps my "look" triggered something. Whatever. Answer their questions and be on my way. We all have to work together.

(02-09-2012 06:55 AM)Ghost Wrote:  If you want to sit there and tell me that there is no problem, that Muslims are treated as equals, well I got news for ya son. If you want to sit there and tell me that what's going on is perfectly rational, I'm here to tell you that we've done this sort of thing before with Italians, Japanese, communists, just to name a few and it was wrong and racist then and it's wrong and racist now.

You give me the impression of seeing racism at every turn. I don't see the world that way. And I'm not making the claim that there is no problem - I've been trying, unsuccessfully, to see the problem as you see it, and I just have not been able to.

I'm sure mistakes have been made in handling or investigating Muslims. Given the stakes, and the difficulty of the situation, this doesn't surprise me. I also don't hold Muslims blameless. When terror events occur, I don't see the muslim leaders come out and condemn the acts, or say what steps they are taking to avoid it in the future. I believe that's the main reason that people don't buy the muslim claim that they're a religion of peace.
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02-09-2012, 08:09 PM
RE: Atheists Ignore Islamophobia at their Peril
Hey, Jeff.

Quote: It sounds like the cops made a reasonable inquiry, handled it well and sent you on your way. This is an example of something bad?

If you don't see how fucked that is, then... then nothing. Just nothing.

Quote:I'd realize that maybe I was taking photos of something sensitive without being aware of it, or perhaps it was random, or perhaps my "look" triggered something.

I'm a large black male. I am intimately aware of how cops react to my "look". I'm also painfully aware of how many of us get shot to death because of it too.

Quote:I'm sure mistakes have been made...

Mistakes are always fine... unless they're happening to you.

I'm gonna sign off now without my signature. Not because I'm angry. I'm not angry. I'm just... shattered. My spirit can't handle this conversation.
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03-09-2012, 12:06 AM
RE: Atheists Ignore Islamophobia at their Peril
(02-09-2012 08:09 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I'm gonna sign off now without my signature. Not because I'm angry. I'm not angry. I'm just... shattered. My spirit can't handle this conversation.

ok, sorry, I tried to understand
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