Atheists are not superior...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-07-2015, 06:23 PM
RE: Atheists aren't superior.
(11-07-2015 03:25 PM)xeberdee Wrote:  It seems that most Athiests are trying to define the world in very exact terms. The idea is that Atheism is superior to Theism because it relies on specific evidence with science as it’s backbone. Exactness does not appear in nature though, so in some sense this strive for exactness is unatural. What I'm talking about is the idea that only logic can define pure and perfect objects such as numbers or points and co-ordinates. We imagine things such as perfectly rounded objects with clean boundaries in empty spaces, whereas nature is much more messy and is made of hard to define particles in various groupings with energy and forces moving in waves. Nature does nothing that is ever stable or can be exactly defined at any given point, as it is under constant change (the uncertainty principle)
A good example of trying to define exactness in the natural world is color. There is no boundary between colors in the light spectrum, just an infinite number of shades of color where blue changes into green and into yellow etc.. The frequency of light also extends beyond our vision and logically too beyond our instruments. We could find infinite terms to describe infinite shades of light, but we see a loosely defined band of 7 stripes or shades of color and we measure a number of invisible frequency bands on either side of our visible spectrum. (eg. infrared, ultraviolet, gamma, xrays and microwaves).
Another example of the loose definition in nature might be under an imaginary super powerful electron microscope where the boundary between the particles that makeup your hand and the air in front of it becomes vague. The closer you look, the more the boundary between you and the air disappears - or the more air there is in you. You are also loosing bits of yourself at an alarming rate into the air, and at the same time you are also dependent on the air to breath. So at what point do you precisely cease being you and become part of the air around you - or vice versa?
When we put an object boundary around anything, we define it only in loose visual terms from some point of consciousness, in reality everything is part of the same universe of particles and forces - which is the most simple general idea of reality that we can ever create. At the same time the universe is the most complex object we know of, in that it contains all other objects inside it. We have no idea if it is infinite or finite – inward or outward.

The idea that there is something outside of nature or supernatural is not so far fetched even though Atheists claim to be resistant to believe it eg. light continues beyond the range of the eye. We can’t see it, yet we are happy about it because we have evidence of it through machines that can measure it. Evidence hasn’t always been available though, and yet some people still believed it possible – were they stupid?. If you are seeking to define evidence of light outside the visible spectrum using the human eye alone, then you will not find it. How could you ever possibly define something that is outside the range of the tool that you use to identify it with? The intelligent mind would not expect evidence of any kind using the human tool - it would be happy enough with the pure theory and belief that it was there. This is the essence of the human belief system - to imagine beyond our senses. The same applies to the supernatural imagination that lies outside of the measurable spectrum.

So we use our imagination, and science tests imaginary theories and designs instruments to define more and more of the universe. The things we have not yet discovered are still outside our range of what we have already defined as nature. Even if we have evidence of similar things, we cannot know the supernatural in the material sense, as the very act of discovery reveals it as plain old nature. Schroedingers cat is neither dead nor alive in its box. This is a supernatural state - it is not natural because nature always defines state. Therefore we have to look inside the box to reveal nature - but the supernatural state exists within us until we do.

OK so what's my point?. My point is that Atheists and Theists are really using the same methods and there is no fundamental difference in how our human minds work. One side is no more superior than the other. We all have a clear idea of the supernatural state and what we might imagine to find beyond nature, and we all use information and belief systems to support it. The difference is that to the theist - the cat's state can be certain whilst being supernatural at the same time though belief.
To defend theism I would suggest that it is hampered by conservative traditions that inhibit it's development in the modern world. To it's advantage and at it’s center it has spirituality. which is a very personal human device that measures mood and feeling in a similarly imperfect way to the eye that measures the spectrum of light. There may be invisible supernatural dimensions to spirituality, but they are highly subjective and undetectable by the hardware. It is pointless for Atheists to expect to find exterior evidence of spirituality, when it is in itself an internal and personal meter.

I am an Atheist, the reason being that I don’t personally believe in any of the intelligent deity solutions to the cosmos or in the organized religion idea. I see so much shit spread by Atheists who think that they are superior to religious people, simply because they imagine that they don't blindly believe in the supernatural – yet science does it and they do it everyday!. You cannot take the high ground, exactly because we all are inclined to believe in something – with or without evidence of it in the natural world. We are all to some extent religious too - in the sense that we have intuition and we use it to support and organize our beliefs.

So please stop giving theistic religious people a hard time for just supporting the idea of belief and for using their intuition – it discredits Atheism and it's really just human nature at work. Sure the Bible is always going to be full of crap – even more so as time goes by. Tradition is a tribal inheritance and there will always be stupid outdated theories passed down to both intellectuals and to ordinary people alike. I always try to point these out and I'm devoted to it.
BUT - religion and theism are not really based on stupidity in themselves. Truth, wonder and mystery are the driving forces of human development, and spirituality (the persuit of internal happiness) does not pose a problem with an Atheistic philosophy. I think we should remember that and resist taking the high ground as Atheists.

Xeb.

Rather too long IMO>>>>>>> could be better to initially take issues bit by bit rather than blogging too soon.Anyhow welcome to TTA.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2015, 06:31 PM
RE: Atheists are not superior...
(11-07-2015 05:52 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Knowledge is superior to unsupported belief.
Measurement superior to guessing.
Rational thought superior to irrational thought.
Useful scientific predictions based on evidence is superior to prophecy
Medicine superior to prayer
Engineering achievements that build sky scrapers superior to mud huts.


The stable nature of nature allows us to discover laws of physics

So seriously, I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Seriously - you people are so polarized in your thinking and hostile - you just wanna rip everything apart - are you American by any chance? That would make some sense as they do that across the world.

I said nothing about any of the things you mention. Amazing interpretation you got out of it.

The only things that is remotely close, is stability. I did say that nature is not really stable - it just appears to move very slowly and we make the mistake of thinking it is so. Nothing in the universe is really where or how it appears to be atm, more so the further away it gets. That's kinda like belief.

You guys gotta loosen up. Have a nice day y'all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2015, 06:40 PM
RE: Atheists are not superior...
(11-07-2015 06:31 PM)xeberdee Wrote:  
(11-07-2015 05:52 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Knowledge is superior to unsupported belief.
Measurement superior to guessing.
Rational thought superior to irrational thought.
Useful scientific predictions based on evidence is superior to prophecy
Medicine superior to prayer
Engineering achievements that build sky scrapers superior to mud huts.


The stable nature of nature allows us to discover laws of physics

So seriously, I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Seriously - you people are so polarized in your thinking and hostile - you just wanna rip everything apart - are you American by any chance? That would make some sense as they do that across the world.

I said nothing about any of the things you mention. Amazing interpretation you got out of it.

The only things that is remotely close, is stability. I did say that nature is not really stable - it just appears to move very slowly and we make the mistake of thinking it is so. Nothing in the universe is really where or how it appears to be atm, more so the further away it gets. That's kinda like belief.

You guys gotta loosen up. Have a nice day y'all.

You really need to take a philosophy class, learn basic logic, then read your OP again and see how incredibly stupid it is.

Are you leaving? If so, great!! Take your stupidity with you when you go.Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2015, 06:49 PM
RE: Atheists are not superior...
And folks - the word of the day is hostile.

Use it, embrace it.

And goddmamnit - start being atheister atheists, buncha fuckin' slackers. Angry

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Anjele's post
11-07-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: Atheists are not superior...
(11-07-2015 06:49 PM)Anjele Wrote:  And folks - the word of the day is hostile.

Use it, embrace it.

And goddmamnit - start being atheister atheists, buncha fuckin' slackers. Angry

*snort*


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2015, 06:54 PM
RE: Atheists are not superior...
Hello! Big Grin

At work.

(11-07-2015 06:31 PM)xeberdee Wrote:  Seriously - you people are so polarized in your thinking and hostile - you just wanna rip everything apart - are you American by any chance? That would make some sense as they do that across the world.

I said nothing about any of the things you mention. Amazing interpretation you got out of it.

The only things that is remotely close, is stability. I did say that nature is not really stable - it just appears to move very slowly and we make the mistake of thinking it is so. Nothing in the universe is really where or how it appears to be atm, more so the further away it gets. That's kinda like belief.

You guys gotta loosen up. Have a nice day y'all.

Not able to post long nor well.

To the OP.

Your opening post is a huge ramble, seeming filled with poor analogies and possible false equivocations.

Then, when others have pointed out such problems..... It is you who've seen this correcting as an attack?

This followed by your last post (Things may have moved on in the time it takes to make this post) is so strange and... wrong... as to a wonder that we, the responders have to 'Chill out'?

I might advice the heeding of others for yourself to gain more understanding about the things your're seeking to discuss.

Much cheers to all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2015, 06:57 PM
RE: Atheists are not superior...
(11-07-2015 06:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-07-2015 04:30 PM)xeberdee Wrote:  As an scientist, I have to have confidence in my theory or my idea. Faith is not a dirty word.

Confident enough to bother to test it. But you better leave that shit at the door when you go test it. Faith is a dirty word. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." - Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) That shit's gonna invalidate your results.

People read too much 'holy shit' into what I say - I'm an Atheist. Faith is just a word to me for confidence - relax, no need to quote or compare with scripture I already said that's bullshit.

As a scientist I have a theory that something is probable - based on evidence and previous testing - but I can't prove it unless I am confident (have the faith) and believe that I will get a worthwhile result - otherwise I won't bother testing.

So confidence is important - you understood me - it's nothing more. I have theist friends that don't let it get in the way - why should we.

I'm not in any way promoting organized religions - just supporting the right to believe and have faith in anything I like. That's not the same.

Spirituality usually gets up other Atheists backs too - but again, they just conflate it with their hate idols.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2015, 06:58 PM
RE: Atheists are not superior...
(11-07-2015 06:57 PM)xeberdee Wrote:  
(11-07-2015 06:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Confident enough to bother to test it. But you better leave that shit at the door when you go test it. Faith is a dirty word. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." - Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) That shit's gonna invalidate your results.

People read too much 'holy shit' into what I say - I'm an Atheist. Faith is just a word to me for confidence - relax, no need to quote or compare with scripture I already said that's bullshit.

As a scientist I have a theory that something is probable - based on evidence and previous testing - but I can't prove it unless I am confident (have the faith) and believe that I will get a worthwhile result - otherwise I won't bother testing.

So confidence is important - you understood me - it's nothing more. I have theist friends that don't let it get in the way - why should we.

I'm not in any way promoting organized religions - just supporting the right to believe and have faith in anything I like. That's not the same.

Spirituality usually gets up other Atheists backs too - but again, they just conflate it with their hate idols.

psst - atheist isn't capitalized - you would think an atheist would know that.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2015, 07:04 PM
RE: Atheists are not superior...
(11-07-2015 06:31 PM)xeberdee Wrote:  I said nothing about any of the things you mention. Amazing interpretation you got out of it.

The interpretation I got was the old "it takes as much faith to be an atheist as it does to believe" canard.

Quote:So please stop giving theistic religious people a hard time for just supporting the idea of belief and for using their intuition – it discredits Atheism and it's really just human nature at work.

I don't know anybody that gives theists a hard time for believing things or for using their intuition. They get a hard time for believing things without evidence and for not testing their intuitions before turning them into beliefs. You are arguing a strawman version of atheism from what looks like a theistic viewpoint.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2015, 07:04 PM
RE: Atheists are not superior...
(11-07-2015 06:57 PM)xeberdee Wrote:  
(11-07-2015 06:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Confident enough to bother to test it. But you better leave that shit at the door when you go test it. Faith is a dirty word. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." - Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) That shit's gonna invalidate your results.

People read too much 'holy shit' into what I say - I'm an Atheist. Faith is just a word to me for confidence - relax, no need to quote or compare with scripture I already said that's bullshit.

As a scientist I have a theory that something is probable - based on evidence and previous testing - but I can't prove it unless I am confident (have the faith) and believe that I will get a worthwhile result - otherwise I won't bother testing.

So confidence is important - you understood me - it's nothing more. I have theist friends that don't let it get in the way - why should we.

I'm not in any way promoting organized religions - just supporting the right to believe and have faith in anything I like. That's not the same.

Spirituality usually gets up other Atheists backs too - but again, they just conflate it with their hate idols.

So what's your motivation here? You are acting as if you're in opposition to all these things listed.. but how many really are acting in favor of these. It's not something largely associated to atheism. You would find most atheists, especially of communities of this type(more forum based members like here tend to be of skeptical/scientific reasonings for being atheist)

There wouldn't be a backlash up towards the "holy shit" or manner of your speech if your manner of speech wasn't come out of nowhere and talk about superiority from an angle of annotating your view as superior.

If it's just a word to you, why would you just go on what you take it to be. Words have multiple meanings and associations. A word's meaning is just a label still, there are the ideas that exist behind it.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: