Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
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27-03-2015, 04:20 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
If atheism is a religion, does the OP also think starvation is a food and dehydration a drink? I suppose in keeping with the analogy, religion is more like this: [Image: 71DDvd4hGIL._SL1357_.jpg]
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27-03-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(27-03-2015 04:20 PM)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:  If atheism is a religion, does the OP also think starvation is a food and dehydration a drink?

World hunger has now been solved by the OP, and you're complaining? Angry
You atheists really are as evil as they say. Rolleyes

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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27-03-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(27-03-2015 04:20 PM)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:  If atheism is a religion, does the OP also think starvation is a food and dehydration a drink? I suppose in keeping with the analogy, religion is more like this: [Image: 71DDvd4hGIL._SL1357_.jpg]

OP is currently sidelined with a bad case of butthurt.

#sigh
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08-04-2015, 09:44 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(25-03-2015 08:09 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  I think you're starting at the wrong place. Think about why you want to advance this argument. Think about what it achieves in advancing your overall argument that catholicism is true. Now, spend some time observing the offence that your argument triggers in the people you are trying to reach.

Why are you advancing this non-argument? Why can't you let this go?

If the answer to that question is that you really want to understand the atheist position then you are going about it all wrong. Instead of telling, try asking. Instead of arguing, try listening.

Checking in. Took a break. Got busy.

Hafnof's observations are 100% correct.

I've actually been thinking about our discussion on and off since I last checked in. Hafnof asked why I'm advancing the argument. I guess in a previous thread, morondog wanted me to pick something to focus on, and that's what I chose.

I've been considering the subject ever since the topic came up. Obviously, theists kick around the saying, "Oh, the atheists are just as religious," or "atheism is a religion." You can probably guess that such statements are tossed around in my circles. I've never really given it much thought until the last part of March.

When it was decided I'd focus on justifying this statement, I just figured that we could logically reach a conclusion through a string of if/then statements. But participating here (and on other forums, actually) has taught me that following lines of thought or keeping conversation focused in an online forum is very difficult. (That could be a different topic for another time.) Plus, the string of abusive swearing and insults grew tiresome.

I ended up checking the subject out here and there. I'd read articles now and then. In the end, I discovered the statement "atheists are religious" is apparently a hot point of conversation. There's arguments for it, and arguments against it. One particular article I'm interested in reading is a Scientific American article that discusses MRI brain pattern differences and similarities between theists and atheists.

Hafnof made a suggestion about learning the atheist's position. As was obvious to you all for the last two months, I am in unfamiliar territory on this one. The conversation between us has been acerbic. But an exchange has taken place nonetheless. Information has been passed between you people and me. So, there is some sort of a dialogue. Obviously, the members of the TTA have learned just how little I am familiar with the ins and outs of the atheist position. Myself, I've been learning about how little I know about it, and I am only beginning to consider certain discussions that most here have already had. When I read about how frustrated people are here that there isn't a dynamic theist who can argue differently--I, myself, get frustrated that I cannot deliver that.

Returning to the topic, Hafnof's (subtle?) assertion is correct: trying to find a logical argument for the statement "atheism is a religion" doesn't really serve me at this point. Basically because I do not know how to argue against atheists. Particularly in an online forum. Nor do I think the argument serves you.

Anyway, I've been in a sort of re-boot phase, for what it's worth. I might want to dabble with the question of "Is atheism a religion" in the future, and if so, I'll likely be returning to this thread with observations, statements, or questions.

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08-04-2015, 10:46 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(08-04-2015 09:44 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Anyway, I've been in a sort of re-boot phase, for what it's worth. I might want to dabble with the question of "Is atheism a religion" in the future, and if so, I'll likely be returning to this thread with observations, statements, or questions.

The problem with that question, really, is that it doesn't do anything for anyone. I mean, leaving aside the issue that the conclusion there is either "no," or "yes, those atheists are as bad as we are!", and that latter conclusion is hardly one you should be excited about, answering the question doesn't accomplish anything at all. A lot of the time when theists ask whether atheism is a religion, or assert that, they seem to think that acquiescence to that point is the end of the conversation, but in truth it isn't even a furtherance of it; it's just a demand to reframe the terms of the conversation in a way that just makes atheists irritated, and implies unflattering things about theism.

Say you get me to agree with you that atheism is a religion; does that settle the question we disagree on, at all? No, it doesn't, it just forcibly recategorizes one half of that disagreement; now, instead of discussing whether any given religion is correct versus no religion being correct, we're now discussing which religion has it right, but the real content of our positions and discussion around that point has not changed at all. Calling atheism a religion in no way entails that atheism is incorrect, nor does it imply a contradiction in the position because atheism does not claim that religions are wrong because they are religions. It's the factual case that atheists object to, that's where the disagreement lies, and this question doesn't even touch that.

So why bother? Why not discuss the content, rather than what to classify one of the respondents as? What do you get out of that?
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08-04-2015, 11:04 PM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015 11:45 PM by Pickup_shonuff.)
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
Let's examine the possible doctrines of the atheistic religion:

Requires a person to believe that the human species is contaminated by strange soul-devouring alien implants that only mysterious alien powers can cure by following the esoteric recipe secretly smuggled into earth's hemisphere and given to some bearded men in tunics and sandals in possession of atramentum and papyrus.

No.

Requires that you believe the Universe is like a snow globe that sits in the invisible palm of a bizarre entity of sorts that enjoys when the ultra-microscopic creations inside offer their unceasing praises with a variety of odd noises and behaviors.

No.

Requires a person to revere sacred texts and ignore all doubts over their validity and soundness.

No.

Requires---

No.
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08-04-2015, 11:07 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(08-04-2015 09:44 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Basically because I do not know how to argue against atheists. Particularly in an online forum. Nor do I think the argument serves you.

It's not a competition. Who is right is not decided by debate... except in politics. Have you studied the youtube videos of people like William Lane Craig? There you will find information on how to argue with atheists. Be ignorant, evade, make fallacious appeals to authority, set up strawmen and knock them down...

Ya know, honestly admitting that you don't know, understanding of the scientific method (which is ya know, hardly rocket-science), formulating falsifiable hypotheses... this kinda thing hardly seems to enter into theist thinking... And *that*'s the stuff that's hard currency in terms of "how to argue against atheists". That's the stuff that'll get you respect.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-04-2015, 11:52 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 11:52 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  This is the thread where I will argue that Atheism is a religion and atheists are religious.

I will lay down why I think this later tonight. But for now, here is the thread.

You'll pardon my amusement. Was there not a more original thought in your head at the moment?
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09-04-2015, 05:41 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(08-04-2015 09:44 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I might want to dabble with the question of "Is atheism a religion" in the future, and if so, I'll likely be returning to this thread with observations, statements, or questions.

Really, don't bother. Atheism does not fit the definition of religion in any way.
It is not an interesting or useful topic of discussion and it won't go well for you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-04-2015, 06:05 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 11:52 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  This is the thread where I will argue that Atheism is a religion and atheists are religious.

I will lay down why I think this later tonight. But for now, here is the thread.

This has probably been done to death by now, but atheism is in no way a religion.

A religion is typically defined as "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

It can also be defined as:
(1) a particular system of faith and worship.
(2) A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

Religions contain a set of organized beliefs concerning the supernatural cause, nature and ultimate purpose of the universe and often include ceremonies, rules and rituals considered sacred by their followers. They contain both cultural views, and shape world-views that relate humans to some supreme order of existence.

In contrast, Atheism is a term that indicates and individual either (a) lacks belief in a god or gods, or (b) takes the position that no gods exist. In a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities - just like theism is the belief in the existence of deities. Neither are religions, but both can be compatible with religions.

To claim that atheism is a religion demonstrates that you fail at grasping basic concepts and simple words. It implies that you have a bias or agenda and is comparable to saying that 'abstinence' is a sexual position or 'not playing basketball' qualifies as a sport.
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