Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
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22-03-2015, 06:08 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 06:07 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(22-03-2015 06:05 PM)Anjele Wrote:  So....we should stop using words?

No?

I find nothing subjective in your response.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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22-03-2015, 06:14 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 06:08 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(22-03-2015 06:07 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  No?

I find nothing subjective in your response.

It was also a question. I was wondering what would make you think that. Communication with subjective language is useful in that it doesn't need proofs; so it's useful in that it's quick, as opposed to language that requires proofs. Russel and Whitehead took 300 pages in the Principia Mathematica to prove that 1+1=2, ya'see.

Anyway, the point is that it's literally impossible to prove what the term 'atheism' in the context of the English language does or does not mean. This guy lost before he even started.
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22-03-2015, 06:19 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 06:14 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(22-03-2015 06:08 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I find nothing subjective in your response.

It was also a question. I was wondering what would make you think that. Communication with subjective language is useful in that it doesn't need proofs; so it's useful in that it's quick, as opposed to language that requires proofs. Russel and Whitehead took 300 pages in the Principia Mathematica to prove that 1+1=2, ya'see.

Anyway, the point is that it's literally impossible to prove what the term 'atheism' in the context of the English language does or does not mean. This guy lost before he even started.

But we already knew that based on his other threads/posts. This is a rerun of his rather tired, and tiring, song.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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22-03-2015, 07:14 PM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2015 07:19 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 06:19 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(22-03-2015 06:14 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  It was also a question. I was wondering what would make you think that. Communication with subjective language is useful in that it doesn't need proofs; so it's useful in that it's quick, as opposed to language that requires proofs. Russel and Whitehead took 300 pages in the Principia Mathematica to prove that 1+1=2, ya'see.

Anyway, the point is that it's literally impossible to prove what the term 'atheism' in the context of the English language does or does not mean. This guy lost before he even started.

But we already knew that based on his other threads/posts. This is a rerun of his rather tired, and tiring, song.

Hirsch's entire life is 110 % invested in (re)defining meaningless terms into syllogisms with strings of English words, which appear to make sense, but when examined critically, possess no meaningful content. This is "what they do". It's their schtick. These are the same set of idiots who use the English language to claim that in transubstantiation, there actually is something (which NO one intelligent in 2015 even talks about any more) called "substance" which is *changed* (into Jebus). They need to keep the cognitive dissonances at bay. So they do this bizarre song and dance in an attempt to make their meaningless pathetic belief system appear to be rational. It is not. It's simply crap.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-03-2015, 07:15 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 07:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-03-2015 06:19 PM)Anjele Wrote:  But we already knew that based on his other threads/posts. This is a rerun of his rather tired, and tiring, song.

Hirsch's entire life is 110 % invested in (re)defining meaningless terms into syllogisms into strings of English words, which appear to make sense, but when examined critically, possess no meaningful content. This is "what they do". It's their schtick. These are the same set of idiots who use the English language to claim that in transubstantiation, there actually is something (which NO one intelligent in 2015 even talks about any more) called "substance" which is *changed* (into Jebus). They need to keep the cognitive dissonances at bay. So they do this bizarre song and dance in an attempt to make their meaningless pathetic belief system appear to be rational. It is not. It's simply crap.

Perhaps, if he just keeps repeating it over and over he will believe it.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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22-03-2015, 08:21 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
I need to pick someone who I will be consistently talking to. Before, I was going to talk to morondog. But he blew me off, so forget him.

Also, this is not a thread where I'm pitching theism vs atheism or any other tangents that go on and on. Also, I'm not going to drop encyclopedic information all in one night. My time on the internet is sporadic, and I don't sit in front of a computer all day.

I am pleased that Leo thinks this thread will be fun. I hope that it will be. But for now, I only have time to respond to Anjele:

(22-03-2015 01:05 PM)Anjele Wrote:  From Merriam-Webster
religion
noun re·li·gion \ri-ˈli-jən\
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group


Start here...

...and then it ends here...nope, not a religion.


The third definition of religion could be anything from gardening to politics. Let's start with the second definition.

An organized system

Atheism is organized. This forum is a testament to the atheists' organization. But there are also even atheist churches. I've linked to them in past threads. Here's another example of an atheist church: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/10...52360.html

Is there a system to organized atheism? Not much more than Protestant churches. Just as Protestants might, sure, congregate in a particular place to share their beliefs, atheists do as well. Where? Here, for one. At TTA.

The organized system is about as organized as the chain of networking that Protestants have worldwide. I would not go so far as to say that atheists have a system like the Catholic Church. But Protestantism? Yes.

Atheism has its symbols, just as religions do. Atheism has its megastar pastors. Hitchens, Dawkins, Nye. Others. And then, there are the countless big fish in little ponds throughout the West who try to actively spread the atheist "gospel." Atheism has its apologetics. And atheism has its slogans: "You don't get to put your unreason on the same shelf as my reason." Atheism even has lobbyists in our government.

Atheism has an organized system, much like Protestantism.

of beliefs

The belief of atheists is simple. There is no God. From that, your actions and words are derived. There are no rules. You have special status to rise above the billions of other people in the world who acknowledge a Creator. You are special snowflakes that are just untouchable by anyone. You can cuss at people all you want, insult them all you want, make fun of them all you want, and act like intellectual snobbish shitlibs all you want. Why not?

The belief of atheists is that there is no God.

of ceremonies

True, there are no real ceremonies, per se. Though, you can observe ceremony in The Church of Satan or Freemasonry. But we are not talking about those godless institutions. Protestants really don't have ceremony either.

and rules

The only rule is that there are no rules. You are the lost boys. Atheists tend to submit themselves to the morality of the collective of human beings for society's mutual benefit. But technically, there are no rules for an atheist.

used to worship a god or a group of gods

You are your own god. You are the one who dictates how things should be. You don't need no pope to tell you what to do. You decide what's best. And other atheists who hold power over you in government will also decide what is best for you, even though they do not adhere to any rules.

- - -

So, to summarize:

Religion is "an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"

Atheism is an organized system of non-believers in society with their own leaders, congregations, and symbols, following a single belief, with a ceremony of "no ceremony," with the single rule that "there are no rules," who worship themselves as god.


If we are going to limit ourselves to officially printed statements about what religion and atheism is, then I could always fall on the US Court system. In 2005, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that atheism is a religion so that inmates could be justified in starting their religious group. That is, their atheist group.

Of course, one could argue I can't cite the U.S. Seventh Court because, why, that doesn't speak for atheism in the larger society.

To that, I would argue that at the very least, atheists want to be called a religion when it is in their favor. Such is the case in the court case.



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22-03-2015, 08:28 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 08:21 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I need to pick someone who I will be consistently talking to. Before, I was going to talk to morondog. But he blew me off, so forget him.

Also, this is not a thread where I'm pitching theism vs atheism or any other tangents that go on and on. Also, I'm not going to drop encyclopedic information all in one night. My time on the internet is sporadic, and I don't sit in front of a computer all day.

I am pleased that Leo thinks this thread will be fun. I hope that it will be. But for now, I only have time to respond to Anjele:

(22-03-2015 01:05 PM)Anjele Wrote:  From Merriam-Webster
religion
noun re·li·gion \ri-ˈli-jən\
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group


Start here...

...and then it ends here...nope, not a religion.


The third definition of religion could be anything from gardening to politics. Let's start with the second definition.

An organized system

Atheism is organized. This forum is a testament to the atheists' organization. But there are also even atheist churches. I've linked to them in past threads. Here's another example of an atheist church: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/10...52360.html

Is there a system to organized atheism? Not much more than Protestant churches. Just as Protestants might, sure, congregate in a particular place to share their beliefs, atheists do as well. Where? Here, for one. At TTA.

The organized system is about as organized as the chain of networking that Protestants have worldwide. I would not go so far as to say that atheists have a system like the Catholic Church. But Protestantism? Yes.

Atheism has its symbols, just as religions do. Atheism has its megastar pastors. Hitchens, Dawkins, Nye. Others. And then, there are the countless big fish in little ponds throughout the West who try to actively spread the atheist "gospel." Atheism has its apologetics. And atheism has its slogans: "You don't get to put your unreason on the same shelf as my reason." Atheism even has lobbyists in our government.

Atheism has an organized system, much like Protestantism.

of beliefs

The belief of atheists is simple. There is no God. From that, your actions and words are derived. There are no rules. You have special status to rise above the billions of other people in the world who acknowledge a Creator. You are special snowflakes that are just untouchable by anyone. You can cuss at people all you want, insult them all you want, make fun of them all you want, and act like intellectual snobbish shitlibs all you want. Why not?

The belief of atheists is that there is no God.

of ceremonies

True, there are no real ceremonies, per se. Though, you can observe ceremony in The Church of Satan or Freemasonry. But we are not talking about those godless institutions. Protestants really don't have ceremony either.

and rules

The only rule is that there are no rules. You are the lost boys. Atheists tend to submit themselves to the morality of the collective of human beings for society's mutual benefit. But technically, there are no rules for an atheist.

used to worship a god or a group of gods

You are your own god. You are the one who dictates how things should be. You don't need no pope to tell you what to do. You decide what's best. And other atheists who hold power over you in government will also decide what is best for you, even though they do not adhere to any rules.

- - -

So, to summarize:

Religion is "an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"

Atheism is an organized system of non-believers in society with their own leaders, congregations, and symbols, following a single belief, with a ceremony of "no ceremony," with the single rule that "there are no rules," who worship themselves as god.


If we are going to limit ourselves to officially printed statements about what religion and atheism is, then I could always fall on the US Court system. In 2005, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that atheism is a religion so that inmates could be justified in starting their religious group. That is, their atheist group.

Of course, one could argue I can't cite the U.S. Seventh Court because, why, that doesn't speak for atheism in the larger society.

To that, I would argue that at the very least, atheists want to be called a religion when it is in their favor. Such is the case in the court case.



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I can't speak for all the atheists but I assure you that I don't worship anybody or anything and I don't hold any atheist ceremonies, whatever that might be.

If we were part of a religion we could get tax exempt status.

As for organization, we are about as organized as herding cats.

And I am not lost, nor a boy.

But thanks for playing word games.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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22-03-2015, 08:38 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 08:21 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I need to pick someone who I will be consistently talking to. Before, I was going to talk to morondog. But he blew me off, so forget him.

Also, this is not a thread where I'm pitching theism vs atheism or any other tangents that go on and on. Also, I'm not going to drop encyclopedic information all in one night. My time on the internet is sporadic, and I don't sit in front of a computer all day.

I am pleased that Leo thinks this thread will be fun. I hope that it will be. But for now, I only have time to respond to Anjele:

(22-03-2015 01:05 PM)Anjele Wrote:  From Merriam-Webster
religion
noun re·li·gion \ri-ˈli-jən\
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group


Start here...

...and then it ends here...nope, not a religion.


The third definition of religion could be anything from gardening to politics. Let's start with the second definition.

An organized system

Atheism is organized. This forum is a testament to the atheists' organization. But there are also even atheist churches. I've linked to them in past threads. Here's another example of an atheist church: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/10...52360.html

Is there a system to organized atheism? Not much more than Protestant churches. Just as Protestants might, sure, congregate in a particular place to share their beliefs, atheists do as well. Where? Here, for one. At TTA.

The organized system is about as organized as the chain of networking that Protestants have worldwide. I would not go so far as to say that atheists have a system like the Catholic Church. But Protestantism? Yes.

Atheism has its symbols, just as religions do. Atheism has its megastar pastors. Hitchens, Dawkins, Nye. Others. And then, there are the countless big fish in little ponds throughout the West who try to actively spread the atheist "gospel." Atheism has its apologetics. And atheism has its slogans: "You don't get to put your unreason on the same shelf as my reason." Atheism even has lobbyists in our government.

Atheism has an organized system, much like Protestantism.

of beliefs

The belief of atheists is simple. There is no God. From that, your actions and words are derived. There are no rules. You have special status to rise above the billions of other people in the world who acknowledge a Creator. You are special snowflakes that are just untouchable by anyone. You can cuss at people all you want, insult them all you want, make fun of them all you want, and act like intellectual snobbish shitlibs all you want. Why not?

The belief of atheists is that there is no God.

of ceremonies

True, there are no real ceremonies, per se. Though, you can observe ceremony in The Church of Satan or Freemasonry. But we are not talking about those godless institutions. Protestants really don't have ceremony either.

and rules

The only rule is that there are no rules. You are the lost boys. Atheists tend to submit themselves to the morality of the collective of human beings for society's mutual benefit. But technically, there are no rules for an atheist.

used to worship a god or a group of gods

You are your own god. You are the one who dictates how things should be. You don't need no pope to tell you what to do. You decide what's best. And other atheists who hold power over you in government will also decide what is best for you, even though they do not adhere to any rules.

- - -

So, to summarize:

Religion is "an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"

Atheism is an organized system of non-believers in society with their own leaders, congregations, and symbols, following a single belief, with a ceremony of "no ceremony," with the single rule that "there are no rules," who worship themselves as god.


If we are going to limit ourselves to officially printed statements about what religion and atheism is, then I could always fall on the US Court system. In 2005, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that atheism is a religion so that inmates could be justified in starting their religious group. That is, their atheist group.

Of course, one could argue I can't cite the U.S. Seventh Court because, why, that doesn't speak for atheism in the larger society.

To that, I would argue that at the very least, atheists want to be called a religion when it is in their favor. Such is the case in the court case.



-

FFS
In order to be a Mason, you have have to profess to a belief in a higher power. Deliberately vague so any theist can join if they so desire.

godless my ass.
My boss is a mason, coworkers are masons. All are believers, Catholics and Protestants.
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22-03-2015, 08:40 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
On one hand, I want to commend LaramieHirsch for actually coming back. On the other hand, he/she wrote what he/she did. I'm torn.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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22-03-2015, 08:49 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
It's like theists think that there is no such thing as being non religious.
Atheism is simply a denial of any religious of any god/s just as much as you deny the existence of the flying spaghetti monster.

Explain how that is religion.
Also I think you are rather trying to say that science is a religion and you'd be wrong on that one too
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