Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
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10-06-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(10-06-2015 12:30 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 12:17 PM)Dom Wrote:  While I totally disagree with the interpretations of both faith and belief in this thread, I am going to overlook that for the moment. Just keep in mind that this is the case and any conversation is entirely hypothetical for that reason.

So, you would pick an intransigent position that refuses to learn and adapt?

That is how you describe religion, and I do agree with that part..... some religions are even more medieval than others... but they all tend to be intransigent and adverse to learning.
Yes. Intrasigence is the essence of religions. Not faith(and all it encapsulates). I would say you understand my view, if that is what you mean.

Would I pick that over learning? If I understand you correctly. The answer is no.

I do understand your view. So, what do you think causes this intransigence?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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10-06-2015, 02:48 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
Given

(22-03-2015 11:52 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  This is the thread where I will argue that Atheism is a religion and atheists are religious.

I will lay down why I think this later tonight. But for now, here is the thread.

and

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I have concluded that there is only one appropriate response at this time:

tl;dr

Drinking Beverage

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10-06-2015, 02:49 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(10-06-2015 02:18 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 12:30 PM)tomilay Wrote:  Yes. Intrasigence is the essence of religions. Not faith(and all it encapsulates). I would say you understand my view, if that is what you mean.

Would I pick that over learning? If I understand you correctly. The answer is no.

I do understand your view. So, what do you think causes this intransigence?
Indoctrination. People are reluctant to let go of ideas that have been passed on. It's a valuable attribute. But one that can also run counter to progress.

Ready made answers for questions especially related to death. It makes death more bearable. For the imminent victim. For the family.

Simplicity. Compared to increasingly abstract and complicated scientific concepts.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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10-06-2015, 03:04 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(10-06-2015 02:49 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 02:18 PM)Dom Wrote:  I do understand your view. So, what do you think causes this intransigence?
Indoctrination. People are reluctant to let go of ideas that have been passed on. It's a valuable attribute. But one that can also run counter to progress.

Ready made answers for questions especially related to death. It makes death more bearable. For the imminent victim. For the family.

Simplicity. Compared to increasingly abstract and complicated scientific concepts.

Ok, we have evolved to accept indoctrination as youngsters, it was once vital for survival - the old telling stories to the young. Like, don't cross the hill, there are bears living on the other side, don't eat the purple berries, they are poisonous... all social animals are indoctrinated as youngsters. We also call it "imprinting".

I think the acceptance of religion is a lot more primal than conscious.

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10-06-2015, 03:36 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(10-06-2015 03:04 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 02:49 PM)tomilay Wrote:  Indoctrination. People are reluctant to let go of ideas that have been passed on. It's a valuable attribute. But one that can also run counter to progress.

Ready made answers for questions especially related to death. It makes death more bearable. For the imminent victim. For the family.

Simplicity. Compared to increasingly abstract and complicated scientific concepts.

Ok, we have evolved to accept indoctrination as youngsters, it was once vital for survival - the old telling stories to the young. Like, don't cross the hill, there are bears living on the other side, don't eat the purple berries, they are poisonous... all social animals are indoctrinated as youngsters. We also call it "imprinting".

I think the acceptance of religion is a lot more primal than conscious.
Yes. It serves a primal purpose. When I left my religious faith, I had to come to terms with the realization that unless reality is magical, I will in all likelihood never see my late brother again.

It cuddles. I think religion will appear when a species develops enough intellect to realize that every member is mortal.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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10-06-2015, 05:08 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(10-06-2015 03:36 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 03:04 PM)Dom Wrote:  Ok, we have evolved to accept indoctrination as youngsters, it was once vital for survival - the old telling stories to the young. Like, don't cross the hill, there are bears living on the other side, don't eat the purple berries, they are poisonous... all social animals are indoctrinated as youngsters. We also call it "imprinting".

I think the acceptance of religion is a lot more primal than conscious.
Yes. It serves a primal purpose. When I left my religious faith, I had to come to terms with the realization that unless reality is magical, I will in all likelihood never see my late brother again.

It cuddles. I think religion will appear when a species develops enough intellect to realize that every member is mortal.

I think you attach too much importance to death.

There is mostly a certain age group - child bearing and rearing age - that abhors death, as well they should, they need to finish raising offspring. This fear naturally tapers off with age. No gods needed.

The tendency of young to soak up indoctrination stems from the need to learn survival skills. It is unnecessary now in it's form, survival skills change as society changes and elders become irrelevant.

So what's with the title "president of Kalakuta"? Wasn't Kalakuta blown to smitereens by the army?

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10-06-2015, 05:28 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(10-06-2015 05:08 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 03:36 PM)tomilay Wrote:  Yes. It serves a primal purpose. When I left my religious faith, I had to come to terms with the realization that unless reality is magical, I will in all likelihood never see my late brother again.

It cuddles. I think religion will appear when a species develops enough intellect to realize that every member is mortal.

I think you attach too much importance to death.

There is mostly a certain age group - child bearing and rearing age - that abhors death, as well they should, they need to finish raising offspring. This fear naturally tapers off with age. No gods needed.

The tendency of young to soak up indoctrination stems from the need to learn survival skills. It is unnecessary now in it's form, survival skills change as society changes and elders become irrelevant.

So what's with the title "president of Kalakuta"? Wasn't Kalakuta blown to smitereens by the army?
That's just my hunch. I think there are more factors than just death. But mortality seems like a core factor. Every major religion has ceremonies around it.

Kalakuta lies in ruins. But its spirit lives on.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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10-06-2015, 05:35 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(10-06-2015 11:50 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 11:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  For instance, are you going to provide your specific definition for faith each time you use it? If so, you're going through more effort than is needed to effectively communicate and people are going to stop listening.

If not, then you're going to have this same semantics argument every time you use faith to describe science. Meaning that you've once again entered into a longer discussion to explain what you actually meant where if you'd use a more appropriate term, you'd be understood from the beginning.
But that only applies to discussions with close minded atheists. On the other it works just fine in discussions with religious adherents.

That is hilarious. Science requires open-mindedness and most religions reject it.

You have failed to justify the conflation of meanings of the word faith.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-06-2015, 06:23 PM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(10-06-2015 05:28 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 05:08 PM)Dom Wrote:  I think you attach too much importance to death.

There is mostly a certain age group - child bearing and rearing age - that abhors death, as well they should, they need to finish raising offspring. This fear naturally tapers off with age. No gods needed.

The tendency of young to soak up indoctrination stems from the need to learn survival skills. It is unnecessary now in it's form, survival skills change as society changes and elders become irrelevant.

So what's with the title "president of Kalakuta"? Wasn't Kalakuta blown to smitereens by the army?
That's just my hunch. I think there are more factors than just death. But mortality seems like a core factor. Every major religion has ceremonies around it.

Kalakuta lies in ruins. But its spirit lives on.

Death ceremonies are popular because all that praying and wailing/crying releases serotonin and dopamine into the system, having a calming effect.

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11-06-2015, 08:38 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(10-06-2015 06:23 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(10-06-2015 05:28 PM)tomilay Wrote:  That's just my hunch. I think there are more factors than just death. But mortality seems like a core factor. Every major religion has ceremonies around it.

Kalakuta lies in ruins. But its spirit lives on.

Death ceremonies are popular because all that praying and wailing/crying releases serotonin and dopamine into the system, having a calming effect.
Interesting. You are clearly a freethinker. The happy atheist. Have a good day.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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