Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
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23-03-2015, 10:35 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
religion
noun re·li·gion \ri-ˈli-jən\
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

OK, so by definition number three here could be applied to any important topic so go ahead and say my atheism is a religion. Doesn't bother me what labels you use, as you again use the same word to mean two different ideas. Example would be "faith" or "theory" to a theist or to a scientist - not the same context there slick. Hey, hockey is a religion in parts of Canada, just like music and medicine are religions to folks I know. The only reason you argue this concept is because you have nothing else to counter atheism with. Sad that since you know we have a basis in reality for our views, that you cannot come to terms with your own doubts.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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23-03-2015, 10:44 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(23-03-2015 10:35 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  religion
noun re·li·gion \ri-ˈli-jən\
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

OK, so by definition number three here could be applied to any important topic so go ahead and say my atheism is a religion. Doesn't bother me what labels you use, as you again use the same word to mean two different ideas. Example would be "faith" or "theory" to a theist or to a scientist - not the same context there slick. Hey, hockey is a religion in parts of Canada, just like music and medicine are religions to folks I know. The only reason you argue this concept is because you have nothing else to counter atheism with. Sad that since you know we have a basis in reality for our views, that you cannot come to terms with your own doubts.

"Atheist" means "off", now if "atheists" meaning more than one, seek to write moral codes and get political, then at that group level it CAN become a religion. But the word "atheist" denotes the individual and merely means "off".

And there are atheist Buddhists and atheist Jews. But "atheist" means off.

Religion is poison and I do not want to see a mere position be turned into a religion. Our secular government law already protects pluralism. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our evolution, not our labels.

But even with groups of atheists, it is still not a moral code even if SOME try to turn it into on.

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23-03-2015, 10:50 AM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2015 11:25 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(23-03-2015 10:35 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(23-03-2015 10:29 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  Some believers are former atheists
And some Buddhists are former Hindus.
Some Christians are former Jews.

You have no point.

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Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-03-2015, 10:58 AM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2015 02:54 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(23-03-2015 10:29 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(23-03-2015 10:26 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  Anyway, this is merely another cognitive dissonance concept. Many theists often cannot fathom anyone not having a belief or religion. Since it's at their core, they just cannot envision anyone not having those restraints.
Some believers are former atheists


Who the fuck cares? If their reasons are no more compelling than any other theist's, if they too lack evidence for their beliefs, then why should I care?


Plus the vast majority of people who claim to be former atheists that I've seen are theists trying to sell you their book. It's a marketing tool, a way to win brownie points with the faithful who already believe by giving them both the implicit endorsement of "no really, you guys are right and trust me because I switched sides" and the classic appeal of a simple character arc or underdog story.


I've seen Kirk Cameron and I've read Lee Strobel, and I've seen the reasons they use to justify their faith. Their stories, even if taken at face value, are nothing more than exercises in credulity. There is a reason why Francis Collins published his work on the Human Genome Project in peer-reviewed scientific journals, but his book attempting to justify his belief in God was published a typical publisher (without peer review) for consumption by the faithful. He doesn't apply the same level of skepticism to his religion as he does his scientific work, he does not hold each to the same standards of evidence; which is why I don't give a flying fuck about Collins' opinion on the existence of god, because his opinions on this matter are unsubstantiated bullshit.

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23-03-2015, 11:03 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 11:52 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  This is the thread where I will argue that Atheism is a religion and atheists are religious.

I will lay down why I think this later tonight. But for now, here is the thread.

Sigh. Dodgy Another one who doesn't understand the term "religion".

If atheism is a religion, then so are the Democrat and Republican parties in the US. And, if you don't see the difference between religions and political parties, then why do we have have the term "religion" at all? (Hint: They're not the same.)

There is a single characteristic that makes religions distinct from any other organization, without which, you may as well lump Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus in with members of the knitting club. That characteristic is a belief in a deity or deities.

I honestly don't get why this is so difficult to understand. Drinking Beverage

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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23-03-2015, 11:20 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(23-03-2015 03:36 AM)soul Wrote:  Oh and the word religion simply means "to bind to...or adhere to"...football...hello kitty...starwars...all could be religions...so ya so can atheism...religions can exist in a materialist world without contradiction.

No it doesn't and, even if you can find some obscure dictionary that says it does, the only people who ever attempt to use the term that way (specifically minus the involvement of at least one deity) are theists who feel so threatened by atheism that they are compelled to resort to this complete desperation.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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23-03-2015, 11:29 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(23-03-2015 10:29 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(23-03-2015 10:26 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  Anyway, this is merely another cognitive dissonance concept. Many theists often cannot fathom anyone not having a belief or religion. Since it's at their core, they just cannot envision anyone not having those restraints.
Some believers are former atheists

And some people are former virgins, whats your point?

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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23-03-2015, 11:30 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(23-03-2015 11:20 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(23-03-2015 03:36 AM)soul Wrote:  Oh and the word religion simply means "to bind to...or adhere to"...football...hello kitty...starwars...all could be religions...so ya so can atheism...religions can exist in a materialist world without contradiction.

No it doesn't and, even if you can find some obscure dictionary that says it does, the only people who ever attempt to use the term that way (specifically minus the involvement of at least one deity) are theists who feel so threatened by atheism that they are compelled to resort to this complete desperation.

"Atheist" means off, nothing more. But can atheists as a group become dogmatic and political? Yes.

It isn't that "atheist" is a religion. It is that humans fuck things up when they treat a group as the patent holder on human behavior. Not even "atheist" puts us above evolution.

Our behavior is in our evolution, not the labels we assign ourselves or others.

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23-03-2015, 11:38 AM
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(23-03-2015 11:30 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  "Atheist" means off, nothing more. But can atheists as a group become dogmatic and political? Yes.

It isn't that "atheist" is a religion. It is that humans fuck things up when they treat a group as the patent holder on human behavior. Not even "atheist" puts us above evolution.

Our behavior is in our evolution, not the labels we assign ourselves or others.

I understand your point, but I don't see what it has to do with mine. My point was that organizing in itself under a common interest or purpose is not what makes a religion.

Also, I disagree that "atheist" means "off". It means a person who lacks a belief in a deity. Atheism is literally "without theism". I'm not sure how you get "off" from that.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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23-03-2015, 04:46 PM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2015 04:50 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Atheists are religious, Atheism is a religion
(22-03-2015 08:21 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  The belief of atheists is simple. There is no God.
Some atheists believe that there is no god. Those are called gnostic atheists. Gnostic atheists believe that there are no gods therefore, logically, they cannot worship any gods.
Most atheists are agnostic atheist. Agnostic atheists have no belief in whether gods exist or whether there are no gods. Agnostic atheists would claim that there is insufficient information available to assess whether gods exist or not. Therefore agnostic atheists cannot worship any gods. Agnostic atheists would put the "burden of proof" onto the people proposing that gods exist, to support their claim before an assessment can be considered as to whether gods exist.
(22-03-2015 08:21 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Atheism is organized. This forum is a testament to the atheists' organization. But there are also even atheist churches. I've linked to them in past threads. Here's another example of an atheist church: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/10...52360.html
It is agreed that some atheists are religious. Some atheists belong to atheistic church organisations such as Bhuddism or the church of satanism, some atheists even belong to Christian church organisations etc.
But there is no requirement for an atheist to belong to a religious organisation. In fact most atheists don't.
An internet forum isn't a religious organisation. This place (TTA) is a place with an "atheist" theme and it comes with it's own participation rules but certainly these rules do not go beyond the forum interactions. Membership to TTA isn't a way of life, it isn't a guide to life, it's a place to discuss ideas, offer opinions, argue with people and make friends. Pretty much on any item you will have people arguing for and against, some people thinking it is an important item, some people thinking it is unimportant. There is no belief system that is being supported or taught, there is no authority on any beliefs, there are no ceremonies or life rules which are being expressed as a requirement for atheists.

(22-03-2015 08:21 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  You are your own god. You are the one who dictates how things should be.
It is not uncommon for a theist to accuse an atheist of being their own god.
This isn't the definition of "God". There really is no concise and useful definition of a god, but most people would agree that to qualify as a god an entity must have intelligence and must have super natural powers.
Most atheists don't think that they possess super natural powers so would disqualify themselves as being a god.
(22-03-2015 08:21 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  how things should be
"how things should be" is a very confusing phrase.
If you are talking about behaviours and in particular the "morality of behaviours" then sure, most atheists have moral beliefs that they have defined themselves. This of itself highlights the lack of religion as most atheists do not look to an organisation for guidance on what those morals ought to be. Most atheists with moral beliefs, believe that morals are subjective, as such they recognise that their own moral belief system differs from everyone else's. Possibly they would like others to adhere to their own moral beliefs but they know that other people would be thinking the same think about their own moral beliefs.
I can understand how you might consider a person coming to their own conclusion as to what is right and what is wrong as being a person who is playing at being god.
As a theist belonging to an organised religion you have been taught (over many years) that morality is god's domain. That it is your Christian obligation to cast aside your own personal ideas (to not trust yourself, to view your own opinion as being a flawed ego) and to take up what your leaders tell you is god's morals. From this base you then assume a person using their own intellect, their own opinion to decide what is right and wrong and how to behave is then a person whom is promoting themselves into what you believe to be god's role.
In reality, us atheists are standing up as independent adults and living our own lives as best as we can. We make decisions pertaining to our own lives, and stand accountable for our own decisions. We know we are not perfect and we know we will make mistakes, but that is a part of being an adult. We cannot look to a religious spokes people for guidance as we looked to our parents for guidance when we were young children. We have grown up, we have enough information in order to make our own decisions.
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