Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
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11-06-2013, 07:38 AM
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
Cloud Strife, about your video, I'd like to point out something that Christians usually say about Jesus' mistreatment to his mother.

A christian would say, "Jesus has dual nature. He is human but God at the same time. So when he didn't treated his mother well, you cannot say that he is a rude son because he was talking that way AS god, not as the human he is."

How'd you respond to that?
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11-06-2013, 09:19 AM
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
(11-06-2013 07:38 AM)GuiltyAngel Wrote:  Cloud Strife, about your video, I'd like to point out something that Christians usually say about Jesus' mistreatment to his mother.

A christian would say, "Jesus has dual nature. He is human but God at the same time. So when he didn't treated his mother well, you cannot say that he is a rude son because he was talking that way AS god, not as the human he is."

How'd you respond to that?

Well, I mainly posted that video because it addressed the fig tree thing which has been brought up a number of times in this thread and I find it amusing. He had a hissy fit over a fig tree, that’s just comedy! I am not intending this short comedic, semi-serious video to stand in for my real opinions.

But that being said, it still makes good points, such as the being rude to his mother thing, though it does it in a joking manner. Though it was not my focus I will address my thoughts on it if you’d like.

The duel nature of Jesus as God and human is bullshit, in my humble opinion. Jesus is perfect (not really but I’ll focus on the idea of him being so first), perfect because he is God, it doesn’t matter if he is human too or not. A perfect faultless being would be so perfect and faultless that I can only imagine he would have been able to handle that situation in such a satisfactory manner that he could make his point, as God, and still be a shining example for humans, as humans and how to treat others…especially our mothers. His inability to navigate both rolls only shows his weaknesses, he is imperfect, and kind of a dick to his mom…

Now if we pay special close attention to the God of the old testament, and realize that Jesus is this very same God, than we have no inconsistency in his behavior. If anything he treated her beautifully, after all he only back talked his mother, didn’t kill her by turning her into a pillar of salt which is what he used to do to people for minor offences.

The “duel nature” of God lays not in Jesus’ God verse human qualities. It lays in God/Jesus’ true nature as written in the bible, verse Christians idealized version of him as made up in their own mind and not biblically based. When God/Jesus does dickish things in the bible, guess what…that’s because he IS being a dick. When those dickish things are seen in a “duelist nature” light, it’s because Christians are trying to clean him up, but I’m sorry, this God/Jesus figure, were he real, is covered with sin.

If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. ~Jesus Christ
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11-06-2013, 10:44 AM
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
(11-06-2013 09:19 AM)Cloud Strife Wrote:  
(11-06-2013 07:38 AM)GuiltyAngel Wrote:  Cloud Strife, about your video, I'd like to point out something that Christians usually say about Jesus' mistreatment to his mother.

A christian would say, "Jesus has dual nature. He is human but God at the same time. So when he didn't treated his mother well, you cannot say that he is a rude son because he was talking that way AS god, not as the human he is."

How'd you respond to that?

Well, I mainly posted that video because it addressed the fig tree thing which has been brought up a number of times in this thread and I find it amusing. He had a hissy fit over a fig tree, that’s just comedy! I am not intending this short comedic, semi-serious video to stand in for my real opinions.

But that being said, it still makes good points, such as the being rude to his mother thing, though it does it in a joking manner. Though it was not my focus I will address my thoughts on it if you’d like.

The duel nature of Jesus as God and human is bullshit, in my humble opinion. Jesus is perfect (not really but I’ll focus on the idea of him being so first), perfect because he is God, it doesn’t matter if he is human too or not. A perfect faultless being would be so perfect and faultless that I can only imagine he would have been able to handle that situation in such a satisfactory manner that he could make his point, as God, and still be a shining example for humans, as humans and how to treat others…especially our mothers. His inability to navigate both rolls only shows his weaknesses, he is imperfect, and kind of a dick to his mom…

Now if we pay special close attention to the God of the old testament, and realize that Jesus is this very same God, than we have no inconsistency in his behavior. If anything he treated her beautifully, after all he only back talked his mother, didn’t kill her by turning her into a pillar of salt which is what he used to do to people for minor offences.

The “duel nature” of God lays not in Jesus’ God verse human qualities. It lays in God/Jesus’ true nature as written in the bible, verse Christians idealized version of him as made up in their own mind and not biblically based. When God/Jesus does dickish things in the bible, guess what…that’s because he IS being a dick. When those dickish things are seen in a “duelist nature” light, it’s because Christians are trying to clean him up, but I’m sorry, this God/Jesus figure, were he real, is covered with sin.

If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. ~Jesus Christ


The Dual nature of Jesus is another addition by St Paul the weasel or rather it was because they tacked Paul's wholly invented Christ (who was basically a jewish version of Mithra) onto the Jesus legends from the early gospels.

I'll give a very brief overview of Paul here and then I will link to an awesome thread that Bucky and Mark had that goes further into the (lack of) character of the man. It's long but well worth the read.

St Paul of Tarsus aka Saul aka The Weasel aka author of up to 1/5 of the NT was without doubt the most unpleasant person in the NT, he even give old angry Yahweh a run since Yahweh was only a dick to you while you were alive but let you rest in peace after you died Paul is the one who tacked on heaven and hell. Paul was a cult leader, no different than the Heavens Gate guy or Jim Jones or John Smith he invented a new religion based on Judaism, Mithraism, a little bit of Horace and Isis, a splash of the Greek mystery cults and seasoned it with a bit of Aphorisms that were popular at the time. It is important to realise that at the time in the Roman empire cults like this were common as Rome did not care who you worshiped as long as you paid your taxes.

Paul had something wrong with him, he mentions his deformity in a few of his letters and there is some debate as to what that is Did he have a birthmark or was he a short man (the napoleon complex rightly describes Paul's actions) but we do know that from his attitudes and writings that he was a closeted Homosexual and considered all Sex unclean and dirty. He may have been an eunuch as well but that again is speculation. Paul is the source for most of the Misogynistic, Homophobic, and Controlling verses in the NT. He was the fount of God the keeper of the truth and he dictated to those who followed him exactly how to live, down to how often they could engage in marital sex to how often they ate together as a community. Paul never knew Yeshua ben Joseph but he did meet his Brother James who promptly kicked him out of Jerusalem so anything he has to say about the life and times of his Christ is purely imagination.

1 other note there is a theory that Paul was an agent of Rome working under Favious Titus to neuter the Nazarene movement that I mentioned in my earlier post. They were rebels and trouble makers and this new cult sought to take away followers and make them loyal citizens "Render unto Ceasar". Paul's arrest by Rome sounds much more like a rescue of an outed Agent than the arrest of a trouble maker. Half a legion to protect 1 man an audience with the sub-governor that is not how Rome treated rabble rousers.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...Saint-Paul This thread is full of much more in depth discussion on Paul and reffernces and citations.

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11-06-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
(11-06-2013 07:38 AM)GuiltyAngel Wrote:  Cloud Strife, about your video, I'd like to point out something that Christians usually say about Jesus' mistreatment to his mother.

A christian would say, "Jesus has dual nature. He is human but God at the same time. So when he didn't treated his mother well, you cannot say that he is a rude son because he was talking that way AS god, not as the human he is."

How'd you respond to that?

Very convenient, explains everything away. No matter what he does, it's justified because he could be acting as human or as god. Either way, he is always wonderful, lowering himself to human standards or acting like a god.

Superman comes to mind...

P.S. So the loving god can mistreat people? How is that loving?

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11-06-2013, 12:03 PM
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
(11-06-2013 11:07 AM)Dom Wrote:  Very convenient, explains everything away. No matter what he does, it's justified because he could be acting as human or as god. Either way, he is always wonderful, lowering himself to human standards or acting like a god.

Superman comes to mind...

P.S. So the loving god can mistreat people? How is that loving?

Ever heard of Sadomasochism (Also known as S&M)? He's also a small child who likes to pull the wings off of us flies....

You must remember that the very religious are religiously insane.

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11-06-2013, 12:09 PM (This post was last modified: 11-06-2013 12:13 PM by Stephen Charchuk.)
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
(10-06-2013 10:58 AM)Cloud Strife Wrote:  Book of Revelation. That shit is insane! So insane it doesn't even need to be disputed. Just read it and you realize it's all bullshit.

A leapord with seven heads, and ten horns on those heads, with feet like a bears and a dagger in one of it's 14 eyes?!?!?!???? Done...

A star lands on earth and is given a key from an angel, and the star (a massive nuclear ball of plasma orders of magnitude larger than the earth) unlocks a pit in the earth with a key (using it's star hands and fingers I guess) releasing locusts with human faces and long girly hair, lions' teeth in their mouths, and look like horses with scorpion tails, and are wearing suits of armor, but are still considered locust?????!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????? DONE again.....

And I haven't even got to the ridiculous stuff yet.

The BOR was written in a number of letters by a hermit. Nough said....

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11-06-2013, 12:31 PM
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
The reason that Jesus and God are said to have "Dual natures" is because they are literary characters who represent the complexities of life. It's an attempt to create order in a random universe. Humans see patterns in things, because we need patterns for survival. Things grow at certain times of the year, so we know when to expect to be able to eat them. If certain animals bite you, you are almost certain to die, so you should stay away from them. But our search for patterns, leads us to search for some kind of universal order, which leads us to search for a creator. Such a creator must be infinitely behind us. Therefore we conclude that it must be infinitely ahead of us as well. Since we created the creator, and we fear death, we chose to have our infinite "character" give us immortality. We choose a happy ending. Is it possible that Jesus lived? Yea, I guess. But he became a character in a book. And one that wasn't written very well. A book that was written by a committee that never met. Much of it was passed down verbally. The only thing they may have had in common, was a need for a happy ending.
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11-06-2013, 01:34 PM
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
(11-06-2013 12:31 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  The reason that Jesus and God are said to have "Dual natures" is because they are literary characters who represent the complexities of life. It's an attempt to create order in a random universe. Humans see patterns in things, because we need patterns for survival. Things grow at certain times of the year, so we know when to expect to be able to eat them. If certain animals bite you, you are almost certain to die, so you should stay away from them. But our search for patterns, leads us to search for some kind of universal order, which leads us to search for a creator. Such a creator must be infinitely behind us. Therefore we conclude that it must be infinitely ahead of us as well. Since we created the creator, and we fear death, we chose to have our infinite "character" give us immortality. We choose a happy ending. Is it possible that Jesus lived? Yea, I guess. But he became a character in a book. And one that wasn't written very well. A book that was written by a committee that never met. Much of it was passed down verbally. The only thing they may have had in common, was a need for a happy ending.

There is some thought that Jesus was put together from several different people of the time. There is also a story a thousand years older than the Jesus story that matches it plus many other similar stories as well.

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11-06-2013, 01:49 PM
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
(11-06-2013 01:34 PM)Stephen Charchuk Wrote:  There is some thought that Jesus was put together from several different people of the time.

FrankenJesus ?
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11-06-2013, 01:54 PM
RE: Atheists can only criticize the Old Testament but not the New
(11-06-2013 01:49 PM)morondog Wrote:  ]

FrankenJesus ?


No, sweet Zombie Jesus..... Angry

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