Atheists for Bernie Sanders
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17-09-2015, 07:33 AM
RE: Atheists for Bernie Sanders
Know your candidate:

how he'll address the economy

Holy fuck sticks, batman. Under the last couple administrations our debt has skyrocketed. Under Bernie Sanders we'd go to a debt default at warp speed. The only thing he mentions is corp taxation and a massive list of outflows. Do the math! Even if you get some more out of the corporations what do you think happens there? Does the corporation eat the tax or does it pass it down in the form of higher prices to the consumer?

How is any of that achievable? Free college, one-payer health systems, 1 trillion in infrastructure, minimum wage doubling, expanding SS, universal child care, and more unions. Sure those are really neat giveaways but someone has to pay for them. This list is a fairy tale.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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17-09-2015, 07:48 AM
RE: Atheists for Bernie Sanders
(17-09-2015 07:33 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  Know your candidate:

how he'll address the economy

Holy fuck sticks, batman. Under the last couple administrations our debt has skyrocketed. Under Bernie Sanders we'd go to a debt default at warp speed. The only thing he mentions is corp taxation and a massive list of outflows. Do the math! Even if you get some more out of the corporations what do you think happens there? Does the corporation eat the tax or does it pass it down in the form of higher prices to the consumer?

How is any of that achievable? Free college, one-payer health systems, 1 trillion in infrastructure, minimum wage doubling, expanding SS, universal child care, and more unions. Sure those are really neat giveaways but someone has to pay for them. This list is a fairy tale.

Why is it not possible? Wouldn't we just be mirroring a variety of European nations that have already created this model? Why would it be any less feasible or any less viable here than there?

A large bulk of his spending is healthcare, and we already spend close to 3 trillion annually for that. So it doesn't seem like new expenditures in this regard, but a change in how those expenditures are managed and distributed. We already spend more than twice as much per individual than any other developed nation. And it would be hard to argue that these cost per individual would increase with a single payor system, especially if we consider how effective medicare and medicaid have been in driving down cost, compared to commercial insurers.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-09-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: Atheists for Bernie Sanders
(17-09-2015 07:33 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  Know your candidate:

how he'll address the economy

Holy fuck sticks, batman. Under the last couple administrations our debt has skyrocketed. Under Bernie Sanders we'd go to a debt default at warp speed. The only thing he mentions is corp taxation and a massive list of outflows. Do the math! Even if you get some more out of the corporations what do you think happens there? Does the corporation eat the tax or does it pass it down in the form of higher prices to the consumer?

How is any of that achievable? Free college, one-payer health systems, 1 trillion in infrastructure, minimum wage doubling, expanding SS, universal child care, and more unions. Sure those are really neat giveaways but someone has to pay for them. This list is a fairy tale.

Well apart from that just listing of what the money would be used. He has a direct systematic plan of how to achieve/save all the money to create that 1 mil Infrastructure and college/etc. system.

The one-payer system isn't of costing more money it would be an attempt to save the money to pay for everything you list afterward. Now is that part the fairytale? Perhaps, but it's not the other elements, that's the element where the large saving of funds starts for the other programs.

[Image: Fed_Funds_WSJ.jpg]

Even if he takes office it's going to be fought against and altered if somehow the plans could go through. Limited and adjusted and fought with strife.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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17-09-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: Atheists for Bernie Sanders
(17-09-2015 07:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(17-09-2015 07:33 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  Know your candidate:

how he'll address the economy

Holy fuck sticks, batman. Under the last couple administrations our debt has skyrocketed. Under Bernie Sanders we'd go to a debt default at warp speed. The only thing he mentions is corp taxation and a massive list of outflows. Do the math! Even if you get some more out of the corporations what do you think happens there? Does the corporation eat the tax or does it pass it down in the form of higher prices to the consumer?

How is any of that achievable? Free college, one-payer health systems, 1 trillion in infrastructure, minimum wage doubling, expanding SS, universal child care, and more unions. Sure those are really neat giveaways but someone has to pay for them. This list is a fairy tale.

Why is it not possible? Wouldn't we just be mirroring a variety of European nations that have already created this model? Why would it be any less feasible or any less viable here than there?

A large bulk of his spending is healthcare, and we already spend close to 3 trillion annually for that. So it doesn't seem like new expenditures in this regard, but a change in how those expenditures are managed and distributed. We already spend more than twice as much per individual than any other developed nation. And it would be hard to argue that these cost per individual would increase with a single payor system, especially if we consider how effective medicare and medicaid have been in driving down cost, compared to commercial insurers.

Math, simple math.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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17-09-2015, 08:14 AM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2015 09:00 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Atheists for Bernie Sanders
(17-09-2015 08:01 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  
(17-09-2015 07:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why is it not possible? Wouldn't we just be mirroring a variety of European nations that have already created this model? Why would it be any less feasible or any less viable here than there?

A large bulk of his spending is healthcare, and we already spend close to 3 trillion annually for that. So it doesn't seem like new expenditures in this regard, but a change in how those expenditures are managed and distributed. We already spend more than twice as much per individual than any other developed nation. And it would be hard to argue that these cost per individual would increase with a single payor system, especially if we consider how effective medicare and medicaid have been in driving down cost, compared to commercial insurers.

Math, simple math.

Simple math dictates that 3$ trillion a year we already spend annually in health care expenditures, already amount to 30$ trillion in a 10 year span (ceteris paribus). How is 15$ trillion in a ten year span under Bernie's plan, worse?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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17-09-2015, 08:51 AM
RE: Atheists for Bernie Sanders
(17-09-2015 08:01 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  
(17-09-2015 07:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why is it not possible? Wouldn't we just be mirroring a variety of European nations that have already created this model? Why would it be any less feasible or any less viable here than there?

A large bulk of his spending is healthcare, and we already spend close to 3 trillion annually for that. So it doesn't seem like new expenditures in this regard, but a change in how those expenditures are managed and distributed. We already spend more than twice as much per individual than any other developed nation. And it would be hard to argue that these cost per individual would increase with a single payor system, especially if we consider how effective medicare and medicaid have been in driving down cost, compared to commercial insurers.

Math, simple math.

So a savings of 15 trillion dollars is a bad thing? People need to look at more than just a hit piece written by Rupert Murdoch (remember he owns the WSJ) and view the real numbers.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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