Atheists, foxholes, you know the drill...
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17-11-2012, 10:56 AM
RE: Atheists, foxholes, you know the drill...
I truly was surprised that they were so put off by my reasoned rebuttals. I mean, the OP doesn't even believe, so he says. We're all in our late 30's, I didn't realize it would be so offensive to have a calm conversation.

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17-11-2012, 11:35 AM
RE: Atheists, foxholes, you know the drill...
(17-11-2012 10:56 AM)Percepticon Wrote:  I truly was surprised that they were so put off by my reasoned rebuttals. I mean, the OP doesn't even believe, so he says. We're all in our late 30's, I didn't realize it would be so offensive to have a calm conversation.
Yeah, strange as it may seem, a lot of people obviously dislike having their ideas challenged. I've always thought that in a discussion of ideas, there is nothing to be offended at (as long as it is the ideas themselves that are being discussed, not the people expressing them...).

Of course, for a lot of people, discussion means stating what they think on a certain subject so that everyone can agree with them.
Also, a lot of people seem incapable of grasping that people's opinions differ. Even less do they realise that in a lot of cases it is just that - an opinion, so there is no true answer or opinion.

To me, it all stems from insecurity - either about your beliefs/opinions or about yourself. And I can't say I quite like it.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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17-11-2012, 11:51 AM
RE: Atheists, foxholes, you know the drill...
(17-11-2012 11:35 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(17-11-2012 10:56 AM)Percepticon Wrote:  I truly was surprised that they were so put off by my reasoned rebuttals. I mean, the OP doesn't even believe, so he says. We're all in our late 30's, I didn't realize it would be so offensive to have a calm conversation.
Yeah, strange as it may seem, a lot of people obviously dislike having their ideas challenged. I've always thought that in a discussion of ideas, there is nothing to be offended at (as long as it is the ideas themselves that are being discussed, not the people expressing them...).

Of course, for a lot of people, discussion means stating what they think on a certain subject so that everyone can agree with them.
Also, a lot of people seem incapable of grasping that people's opinions differ. Even less do they realise that in a lot of cases it is just that - an opinion, so there is no true answer or opinion.

To me, it all stems from insecurity - either about your beliefs/opinions or about yourself. And I can't say I quite like it.
I think there was a term for this (belief perseverance?). Some peeps really need to learn that they and their ideas are two separate things. They would realize that it is irrational to be offended if their ideas are being challenged or attacked. Judging by my experience, this behavior appears to be very common with (religious) fundamentalists.

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17-11-2012, 11:55 AM
RE: Atheists, foxholes, you know the drill...
(17-11-2012 11:51 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(17-11-2012 11:35 AM)Vera Wrote:  Yeah, strange as it may seem, a lot of people obviously dislike having their ideas challenged. I've always thought that in a discussion of ideas, there is nothing to be offended at (as long as it is the ideas themselves that are being discussed, not the people expressing them...).

Of course, for a lot of people, discussion means stating what they think on a certain subject so that everyone can agree with them.
Also, a lot of people seem incapable of grasping that people's opinions differ. Even less do they realise that in a lot of cases it is just that - an opinion, so there is no true answer or opinion.

To me, it all stems from insecurity - either about your beliefs/opinions or about yourself. And I can't say I quite like it.
I think there was a term for this (belief perseverance?). Some peeps really need to learn that they and their ideas are two separate things. They would realize that it is irrational to be offended if their ideas are being challenged or attacked. Judging by my experience, this behavior appears to be very common with (religious) fundamentalists.
I think it's because people tie up so much of their identity with their opinions and beliefs...their ideas become the person....and thus susceptible to 'attack' when criticized.

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17-11-2012, 12:03 PM
RE: Atheists, foxholes, you know the drill...
(17-11-2012 11:55 AM)Percepticon Wrote:  
(17-11-2012 11:51 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I think there was a term for this (belief perseverance?). Some peeps really need to learn that they and their ideas are two separate things. They would realize that it is irrational to be offended if their ideas are being challenged or attacked. Judging by my experience, this behavior appears to be very common with (religious) fundamentalists.
I think it's because people tie up so much of their identity with their opinions and beliefs...their ideas become the person....and thus susceptible to 'attack' when criticized.
But sometimes it's not even 'criticising' their ideas, just discussing them. Or even expressing an idea that differs from theirs without trying to make them change how they view things.

It's not an "if you're not with me, you're against me" kind of thing. Or it shouldn't be No

Plus, if you truly believe in something, why would someone else's lack of belief disturb you so much? And why would you want everyone to think the way you do, have the same ideas you do, like the things you do...

I've actually heard people say really horrible things about others, on a very personal level, yet those same people have told me I shouldn't discuss ideas, as it might give offence (and I do not think I'm a particularly offensive person).

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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17-11-2012, 03:47 PM
RE: Atheists, foxholes, you know the drill...
What a bunch of crap.

I've almost died several times, and have been in very touch and go situations. Never once did I call out to any prayer answering deity.

1. I've been in several situations while surfing where I've been close to drowning. Not once did the thought of any deity enter my mind. My survival was due to my skills and a little luck.

2. I had my appendix burst far from medical help. I had to be flown to a town with a hospital. I was in there for weeks. It was touch and go for the first couple of days. I had plenty of time to contemplate my mortality. Again, the thought to call out to the tribal deity of superstitious Bronze Age desert dwellers never once entered my mind.

3. Taking a small boat to surf private land north of Santa Barbara in the winter. The weather changed drastically in a very short time and blew us out to sea with an under powerd outboard motor. We were fighting winds and huge seas. It was hours later we were spotted and picked up. Again...Yahweh...Jeshua...Allah...nope, nothing.

I wasn't being shot at, true. But my life was in real danger nonetheless.
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