Atheists losing job
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09-11-2010, 01:57 PM
RE: Atheists losing job
It has happened again.
Teacher was forced to close youtube account because he was an atheist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ivrcVSdaM

Sorry for the link admins, no I'm no bot.

Damn this makes me so angry.The guy started a new channel.I believe the link is in the description of the video I linked to.
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09-11-2010, 02:42 PM
RE: Atheists losing job
This kinda stuff makes parts of the US seem like an other world. I'm so glad I don't have to stand fundy fundies stalking behind corners. Discrimination because of religion is illigal and it doesn't happen outside sects like the JWs and Lestadiolans nor outside fundie families.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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09-11-2010, 06:54 PM
RE: Atheists losing job
There's no rule against posting links in the body of a post. Just no links in your signature.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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09-11-2010, 08:09 PM
RE: Atheists losing job
(09-11-2010 02:42 PM)Kikko Wrote:  This kinda stuff makes parts of the US seem like an other world. I'm so glad I don't have to stand fundy fundies stalking behind corners. Discrimination because of religion is illigal and it doesn't happen outside sects like the JWs and Lestadiolans nor outside fundie families.

There was a story on "The Young Turks" a while back.
A teacher did a magic trick to make a coin disappear to amuse kids during a boring class.He was fired on grounds of witchcraft.

I'm sorry to say but some parts of your country seem medieval.
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09-11-2010, 08:22 PM
RE: Atheists losing job
There has to be some sort of law against this.

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"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
-Stephen Colbert
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09-11-2010, 10:19 PM
RE: Atheists losing job
The very nature of Atheism means that this is a battle that you will lose.

Atheism states nothing. Therefore there is nothing to base a power block on.

Religions state a lot. It's very easy to organise around them. Therefore, they will always outnumber you.

Freedom of speech is fine, but when Atheists threaten the basis of a power block (by definition you undermine all religions) they will rally against you.

Because they will always outnumber you and out power you, you will always find it impossible to remain free when being outspoken against them.

Saying it's unfair is like saying it's unfair that rich people take from poor people. Of course it's unfair. But that is the nature of the game when you live in a hierarchical society. Special interest groups hoard power and use it to the benefit of their constituents and to undermine their enemies.

So who are you going to complain to? The government? The government is composed of people who have power because of the support of power blocks. The larger the size or number of the power blocks they can cater to, the greater their mandate.

The one lobby group you have to go to right now is the "freedom of speech/constitution" power block. But if you hide behind them forever, eventually the religious power block will be forced to use their power to undermine the constitution and the sanctity of freedom of speech.

Freedoms will always lose to security because freedom is the wish of the moderates while security is the demand of the extreme. Moderates say "people SHOULD be free because it's good". Extremists say "people MUST be secure because we're under attack". That threat of attack causes a Z effect that makes the moderates migrate to the extreme. It is how extremists gain power and there is little to no defense against it because it is an irrational argument. It can't be countered with reason. As Herman Goering said:

Quote:Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
-Herman Goering at his Nuremberg trial

So if Atheists want to prevent Theists from using their power to undermine them and if they want to survive in the long term, they have to:
A - Make peace with the Theists
B - Make some more powerful friends
C - Become an organised special interest group with enough power to go toe to toe with Theists
D - Stop pretending that good things happen because they're supposed to
E - Know that there's some people you shouldn't pick a fight with

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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10-11-2010, 12:41 AM
RE: Atheists losing job
(09-11-2010 10:19 PM)Ghost Wrote:  The very nature of Atheism means that this is a battle that you will lose.

Atheism states nothing. Therefore there is nothing to base a power block on.

Religions state a lot. It's very easy to organise around them. Therefore, they will always outnumber you.

Freedom of speech is fine, but when Atheists threaten the basis of a power block (by definition you undermine all religions) they will rally against you.

Because they will always outnumber you and out power you, you will always find it impossible to remain free when being outspoken against them.

Saying it's unfair is like saying it's unfair that rich people take from poor people. Of course it's unfair. But that is the nature of the game when you live in a hierarchical society. Special interest groups hoard power and use it to the benefit of their constituents and to undermine their enemies.

So who are you going to complain to? The government? The government is composed of people who have power because of the support of power blocks. The larger the size or number of the power blocks they can cater to, the greater their mandate.

The one lobby group you have to go to right now is the "freedom of speech/constitution" power block. But if you hide behind them forever, eventually the religious power block will be forced to use their power to undermine the constitution and the sanctity of freedom of speech.

Freedoms will always lose to security because freedom is the wish of the moderates while security is the demand of the extreme. Moderates say "people SHOULD be free because it's good". Extremists say "people MUST be secure because we're under attack". That threat of attack causes a Z effect that makes the moderates migrate to the extreme. It is how extremists gain power and there is little to no defense against it because it is an irrational argument. It can't be countered with reason. As Herman Goering said:

Quote:Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
-Herman Goering at his Nuremberg trial

So if Atheists want to prevent Theists from using their power to undermine them and if they want to survive in the long term, they have to:
A - Make peace with the Theists
B - Make some more powerful friends
C - Become an organised special interest group with enough power to go toe to toe with Theists
D - Stop pretending that good things happen because they're supposed to
E - Know that there's some people you shouldn't pick a fight with

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

First off let me just say that no matter how to the point I may sound here none of this is personal. Plain and simple. At the very least we can always both agree that if one of us is right about the existence of nonexistence of gods then the other is wrong. Smile

Even if Atheism were to totally vanish from the world tomorrow the truth would remain the same. Losing or winning means very little really. Truth is wonderful in that it's as unbiased as you can get in terms of reality.

I guess I also have to ask for what you mean by "Win". Do you mean convert all the world's populace (impossible) or a successful separation of church and state?

A battle being fair or winnable does little to determine who was morally right to fight in the first place. Even if Theists outnumber us it does nothing to change what the truth is. A dictator winning a war on the grounds of selfish reasoning does little to reverse the moral character of the dictator. He is still evil.

As for complaining to government we can do one better and hold the government accountable to it's own laws. There is a fantastic organization in the states called the freedom from religion foundation that fights this fight on a regular basis and sues the government when it oversteps it's bounds. We would only be so lucky if a similar organization started here in Canada.

If the theistic groups (which I think is starting to happen in the US) overthrow all that is good about Freedom and equality to build a nation under a god then the rest of the world will see that and react accordingly with disgust and distrust.

I need only point to the Middle east for a great example of how Islam has caused such a change when it took over government. The Islamic people were great scholars and leaders in discovery centuries ago during the 7th to about 14 or 15th century. Once religion took over....

There is a great quote and I can't remember who once stated it (I think it was one of the founding fathers but I can't recall which) but it goes:

"Any society that gives up Freedom for Security will deserve neither and lose both"

If you enforce theistic security over Freedom of speech you will lose it all.

With that said I'm off to bed have a great night all.

"
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10-11-2010, 07:02 AM
RE: Atheists losing job
(10-11-2010 12:41 AM)Godless Wrote:  "Any society that gives up Freedom for Security will deserve neither and lose both"

That was Benjamin Franklin

And Ghost, I don't agree.
There is an expression in my country that goes : "a head that bows down is not cut by the sword"
Simply playing along to theism irrationality seems to undermine free thought.

Would you convert to Islam to prevent terrorist attacks even if it meant abandoning all your values ?
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10-11-2010, 08:14 AM
RE: Atheists losing job
Quote:A teacher did a magic trick to make a coin disappear to amuse kids during a boring class.He was fired on grounds of witchcraft.
I shouldn't laugh, o' I'm a bad person...
In the 14th century he would have been fired literally. Progress is slow.

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Accept me or go to hell.
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10-11-2010, 08:16 AM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2010 08:25 AM by BnW.)
RE: Atheists losing job
I don't think that is what Ghost was saying. He was not advocating a position, he was explaining the reality. And, I agree with his view of reality.

Something else I wanted to point out: these videos are all very gripping and stunning but they are not presenting enough actual data to make a determination if what they claim is true When this thread started I did a quick google search and the only stories I could find about people being fired for being atheists was teacher in parochial schools who came out as atheists outside of work but were fired for it. Now, I think it's tough to argue that a Catholic School teacher can be anything but a Catholic. My guess is a Catholic School teacher who came out as a Lutheran may have a similar problem. I guess at that point it depends on how many potential new teachers there are that are Catholics, but I can see a parochial school firing someone over that.

As for the issue in general, there are federal, and usually state, laws that protect people from being fired on the basis of certain things including religion. I'm not familiar with all the jurisprudence but I think there is certainly a strong legal argument to be made that being fired for having no religion would violate the prohibition on religious discrimination. Now, there are going to be obvious exceptions to this, like if the job itself is based on religious affiliation. A Jew can't claim discrimination for not being allowed to be a Catholic priest, but otherwise you can't do that.

So, without more details and some actual facts, I sort of read this like the sort of ranting that LeviTimes described in his family when he posted about how they feel Christians are always persecuted in this country. In the case of atheists I think there is some truth to it as are a huge minority (whereas Christians get their holidays off as federal holidays) but without some detail and proof, I just can't take this seriously. I'm sure there are instances of it, but that doesn't make it the norm.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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