Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
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03-12-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
I think we're born atheist, no different from apes or squirrels in that regard. However, I'll concede that if you took an infant and somehow raised it in an environment free from ANY reference to religion of any kind, some of the same conditions that caused Man to invent God in the first place might take root in that child's mind as well. Fear of lightning or of hurricanes, or of the Big Bad Wolf, fear of death, concepts like fairness or right and wrong, a REASON for the good things and bad things that happen to people could lead a child to ask some of the same eternal questions that Bronze Age people asked when faced with the same problems. I'm not saying these things are evidence of a higher power - I'm saying the observation of these things might lead a child, as it led primitive Man, to postulate there might BE a higher power, and to then wish it to be true, and to then hope the higher power favors them above others.
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03-12-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
(03-12-2014 01:23 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Fear of lightning or of hurricanes, or of the Big Bad Wolf, fear of death, concepts like fairness or right and wrong, a REASON for the good things and bad things that happen to people could lead a child to ask some of the same eternal questions that Bronze Age people asked when faced with the same problems. I'm not saying these things are evidence of a higher power - I'm saying the observation of these things might lead a child, as it led primitive Man, to postulate there might BE a higher power, and to then wish it to be true, and to then hope the higher power favors them above others.

In fact, we know that children regardless of religious or lack of religious upbringing from as early as we can tell, hold teleological beliefs, that pointy rock exists so porcupines can scratch their backs on. They are in fact intuitively creationist.
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03-12-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
(03-12-2014 02:20 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  In fact, we know that children regardless of religious or lack of religious upbringing from as early as we can tell, hold teleological beliefs, that pointy rock exists so porcupines can scratch their backs on. They are in fact intuitively creationist.

Yes - with their own imaginations as the creators; they're inherently artists and scientists.
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03-12-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
(03-12-2014 02:20 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-12-2014 01:23 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Fear of lightning or of hurricanes, or of the Big Bad Wolf, fear of death, concepts like fairness or right and wrong, a REASON for the good things and bad things that happen to people could lead a child to ask some of the same eternal questions that Bronze Age people asked when faced with the same problems. I'm not saying these things are evidence of a higher power - I'm saying the observation of these things might lead a child, as it led primitive Man, to postulate there might BE a higher power, and to then wish it to be true, and to then hope the higher power favors them above others.

In fact, we know that children regardless of religious or lack of religious upbringing from as early as we can tell, hold teleological beliefs, that pointy rock exists so porcupines can scratch their backs on. They are in fact intuitively creationist.

Yea children WOULD think a pointy rock exists so porcupines can scratch their backs on it because they're ignorant to why pointy rocks exist and how they got pointy in the first place. In other words their CHILDREN. Rolleyes

The god of the gaps is at work early on only because we are so ignorant but yet we have fantastical pattern seeking brains... not because we are creationists by default. That's absolutely retarded. We are only poisoned with God/Creator thoughts by those ancient ignorant relatives who had no idea why everything was the way it was and only could come up with an extremely unlikely scenario that all of it is some dudes science experiment. We are obviously born atheist. How ridiculous to think if a child was born on a planet with no dogmas or religion, somehow that child would start thinking a supernatural figure made it all up??? Yea ok. He would be labeled a freak considering how ridiculous we know the whole religious shit is on our planet and WE, since we're all almost identical DNA wise, could be considered apologists to some extent. Seriously imagine a higher species visiting Earth and realizing we think a God created us. You don't see how laughable that is? Geeez. Come on.
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03-12-2014, 05:40 PM
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
(03-12-2014 05:14 PM)dirtstar Wrote:  How ridiculous to think if a child was born on a planet with no dogmas or religion, somehow that child would start thinking a supernatural figure made it all up???

it's very likely he would have presumed exactly this. He wouldn't be predisposed to naturalism that's for sure, lol. You seem to have it backward it's naturalism that has to be taught, man is predisposed to believing that there are spiritual/supernatural forces, hence why nearly every civilizations and tribe that has ever existed has believed in such forces, and powers at play in the world. And hence why it typically requires something along the lines of an education before one accepts naturalism.

Children are predisposed to see the world as a product of intent, inclined to teleological beliefs about the natural world. And these are the basic primers that have led to God beliefs and the abundance of such things in human history.
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03-12-2014, 05:46 PM
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
(03-12-2014 11:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-12-2014 11:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  Nice strawman; no one here has advocated that. Drinking Beverage

It appears no one here has a clear idea of what they are advocating.

Only you and that idiot Q have no clear idea due to your inability or refusal to understand.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-12-2014, 05:51 PM
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
(03-12-2014 05:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-12-2014 05:14 PM)dirtstar Wrote:  How ridiculous to think if a child was born on a planet with no dogmas or religion, somehow that child would start thinking a supernatural figure made it all up???

it's very likely he would have presumed exactly this. He wouldn't be predisposed to naturalism that's for sure, lol. You seem to have it backward it's naturalism that has to be taught, man is predisposed to believing that there are spiritual/supernatural forces, hence why nearly every civilizations and tribe that has ever existed has believed in such forces, and powers at play in the world. And hence why it typically requires something along the lines of an education before one accepts naturalism.

Children are predisposed to see the world as a product of intent, inclined to teleological beliefs about the natural world. And these are the basic primers that have led to God beliefs and the abundance of such things in human history.

Seeing intentionality and patterns are evolved mechanisms that aided survival.
This does not make the existence of the supernatural true or even probable.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-12-2014, 05:51 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2014 05:55 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
(03-12-2014 05:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only you and that idiot Q have no clear idea due to your inability or refusal to understand.

No, when people attempt to express what they mean clearly, I do typically understand them, it's when they are vague, and all over the place where it becomes problematic.

But perhaps we can try again, what is it that you understand here that I don't?
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03-12-2014, 05:56 PM
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
(03-12-2014 05:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  it's very likely he would have presumed exactly this. He wouldn't be predisposed to naturalism that's for sure, lol. You seem to have it backward it's naturalism that has to be taught, man is predisposed to believing that there are spiritual/supernatural forces, hence why nearly every civilizations and tribe that has ever existed has believed in such forces, and powers at play in the world. And hence why it typically requires something along the lines of an education before one accepts naturalism.

Children are predisposed to see the world as a product of intent, inclined to teleological beliefs about the natural world. And these are the basic primers that have led to God beliefs and the abundance of such things in human history.

Even if that were shown to be completely accurate, so what? What children are
"predisposed" to see doesn't say anything about what is actually true. It is common for children to be predisposed to believe that there are monsters under the bed. Does that mean they are likely?

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03-12-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: Atheists not raising their kids as atheists
(03-12-2014 05:56 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Even if that were shown to be completely accurate, so what? What children are
"predisposed" to see doesn't say anything about what is actually true. It is common for children to be predisposed to believe that there are monsters under the bed. Does that mean they are likely?

No it doesn't mean it's anymore likely to be true. We could just as well be predisposed to believing all sorts of stupid shit for all I care.
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