Atoms weren't always evident....
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11-11-2012, 10:21 PM
Atoms weren't always evident....
When I've told my husband that I don't believe in god because there is no evidence and I do not perceive it, his reaction is "Well, there was a time when people had no proof of atoms but we know THEY exist now." He wonders why I would bother disputing the existence of something so adamantly when I admit that it IS possible. I suppose he has a point.... What do you say to that?
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11-11-2012, 10:29 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2012 10:37 PM by Near.)
RE: Atoms weren't always evident....
Well, to start off with, I would say (as it has been said before) The time to believe something is when there is evidence to support it, not before. The reason that we know atoms exist is because we did a lot of hard work researching and discovering them. We tested hypotheses, and found evidence, and eventually formed theories. The same cannot be said of any god claim, at least, I have not heard any convincing arguments that support any god claims.

Also, there has been a long history of people thinking about atoms, and believing that they existed, they were called Atomists.

(Edit: Although, his arguing about atoms I would say is a bit of a Red Herring. Whether or not people knew about atoms is irrelevant to the claim: a god exists. Any god that would punish people who felt that they were not provided adequate evidence to believe in it, is an asshole. If such a god exists, I would not worship it. If a god like that is ever proved to me, I will not worship it.)

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11-11-2012, 10:50 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2012 11:23 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atoms weren't always evident....
What god are they talking about ?
How do they think they know anything about the god ?
If it's the god they think is in the Bible, they just haven't studied the Bible.t
Ask them to define what they mean by "god".

Why does the question even get asked ? There is no evidence for a 1957 Chevy orbiting Pluto. Are we "waiting for evidence" for that ?
There must be a reason that they think the question is appropriate. If it's a explanation for something, then it's just a "god of the gaps".

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11-11-2012, 11:05 PM
RE: Atoms weren't always evident....
Hey, Fickle.

He does have a good point.

Lack of evidence isn't proof against. All of the failed flying contraptions prior to the Kitty Hawk weren't proof that flying in a machine was objectively impossible.

But I think your counterargument should be, because it's truthful, that you've made a conscious decision not to believe in God. As an Agnostic, I look at the sum total lack of evidence and the fact that it is possible and say, "Well, that means I should reserve my opinion until more information comes in." That's what I believe. You believe there is no God. Nothing wrong with that. He just has a good point is all.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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11-11-2012, 11:39 PM
RE: Atoms weren't always evident....
It's not so much proof for god, it's more mountains and mountains of proof against god.

ie: This can in my hand is red. You want to believe its blue. I can't prove it is blue but I can prove it's not blue.

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11-11-2012, 11:50 PM
RE: Atoms weren't always evident....
There is no proof god does not exist. There is proof that he doesn't need to exist though.
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12-11-2012, 12:08 AM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2012 01:14 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Atoms weren't always evident....
As you will see, Muffers created Italians. No gods necessary. There's always an explanation.



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12-11-2012, 12:37 AM
RE: Atoms weren't always evident....
Bucky Ball - It wasn't in reference to any particular god. My husband is Christian but has ?liberal? views on what god may be. He says he had a religious experience that changed his life and gave him clarity. I can't really argue with that, although I tried to understand why that had to = god.
Ghost - I like the simplicity of your answer. I get caught up in trying to understand the religious people around me and *trying* to feel understood. It leads nowhere, a circle of frustration. I suppose by your definition I'm more agnostic than anything. I don't see a reason to believe in god but I'm open to the possibility, I guess... I have so far to go in my thinking on this subject.
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12-11-2012, 01:21 AM
RE: Atoms weren't always evident....
There were times when there was no evidence for atoms, but people who lived at that time were logically justified not to believe in atoms.

Today there is an infinite number of claims which could be true, but we have no evidence to support them (and some of them are true, some of them are wrong). Few examples: Santa Clause is living on Pluto, there are small dwarfs in the center of the Earth, God exists...
If you want to call yourself agnostic, because you re open for new evidence, that s fine. But than you should also call yourself agnostic about Santa Clause, dwarfs, fairies...

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12-11-2012, 06:01 AM
RE: Atoms weren't always evident....
Fucking Ghost the apologist... stop trying to make more aggies. :P

Dumb comparison. No one ever tried to ascribe a bunch of supernatural bullshit to atoms. Besides, the whole argument is moot. Guy's got a quasi-Christian metaphysic, guy's supposed to be taking that shit on faith, not looking for/promoting evidence.

Fucking theists are such duplicitous, scandalous, evil motherfuckers. :angel:

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