Attack a Theist
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22-05-2013, 07:01 PM
RE: Attack a Theist
(22-05-2013 06:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-05-2013 12:50 PM)kim Wrote:  What is this The Gay Worldview of which you speak? New talk show, perhaps? Fashionable brand of eyewear? Possibly, a trendy restaurant? 'Splain, please.

There is a secret training camp in Northern CA. . I am not allowed to divulge where.
There, they (we) are taught how to order fu-fu drinks, purchase feather boas, say "fabulous", lisp, what all the trendy shit is, and when one is allowed to wear whites. Dodgy

I know where that place is.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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22-05-2013, 09:07 PM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2013 09:35 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Attack a Theist
(22-05-2013 07:09 AM)Mojch Wrote:  ***To Full Circle: I'm holding up fine. My biggest problem right now is not letting the forum eat too much time.

This place is habit forming, even addictive...certain people and their points of view grow on you...like fungus Big Grin

(22-05-2013 07:09 AM)Mojch Wrote:  I would like to point out that your point about consenting adults was exactly what I was trying to get CJS to admit. People DO have an interest in each other's sex lives and the blatant statement that "my sex life is no one's business but my own" is demonstrably false and must be qualified with the phrase "up to a point".

Yes, but like I asked who gets to intrude? I'm all for reversing the population explosion on the planet, nothing good will come of it. As a perfectly good bad example was/is China's 1 child policy that has had a disasterous effect on their M/F ratios by inadvertently causing the murder of who knows how many female babies. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

(22-05-2013 07:09 AM)Mojch Wrote:  Moving on, you stated that "It would be a great act of humanity and kindness if the very organizations that so strenuously oppose contraception and sex education would throw themselves wholeheartedly in support of both." YES! The refusal of certain religious groups to admit this is horrific and the consequences have been devastating. However, I would qualify the atheist position by stating that the effort should be dual. We should teach youth that, if you can make it, abstinence is the best policy. If you can't, then these are the methods and facts you need to know.

Let's not call it "the atheist position" since I speak for no one else but me, its simply my position. I'm happy to see that you agree with me on the point of sex education and contraceptives. I did not specifically call out abstinence since I believe that would be included in sex education, but to be clear I think that abstinence is an integral part of a young person's sex education. Teaching sex education, in my opinion, is really the only way to curb overpopulation, unwanted preganacies, abortions, wards of the court, babies having babies, spreading disease and poor decisions because of ignorance; you can't mandate it (China) and you can't criminalize it (US) and trying to scare people by telling them its sinful only backfires because this creates lifelong psychological damage.


(22-05-2013 07:09 AM)Mojch Wrote:  Finally, to address your argument about the US Constitution. You are exactly correct but you assume that I would seek to impose my Christian sexual morality through the legal system. I would never dream to do this. For example, I support gay marriage, not because I agree that homosexuality is not wrong, but because I believe that our legal system rightly removes that question from religious consideration by demanding equal protection. It is perfectly logically consistent for me to insist that homosexuality is wrong while at the same time agreeing with your argument regarding the legal system.

I am relieved to hear this. I hold in high esteem the ability of an individual to see beyond their own preferences and place the needs of the society/many above their own/few (that is so Vulcan Smartass just saw the new Star Trek so forgive my indulgence).

I assure you that just as you are looking to test your beliefs by coming here some of us, me for example, are testing their own by having an open dialogue with others. You just happen to be the new kid in town that is "different". I'm watching with interest to see if and how you fit in. So hold on to your hat, its probably only going to heat up as we get to know each other.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-05-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: Attack a Theist
(22-05-2013 07:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(22-05-2013 06:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is a secret training camp in Northern CA. . I am not allowed to divulge where.
There, they (we) are taught how to order fu-fu drinks, purchase feather boas, say "fabulous", lisp, what all the trendy shit is, and when one is allowed to wear whites. Dodgy

I know where that place is.

I know where the satellite encampment is in southern Cali...

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22-05-2013, 11:20 PM
RE: Attack a Theist
(22-05-2013 07:09 AM)Mojch Wrote:  ***To Starcrash: The success or failure of Biblical sexuality as a moral precept is relevant to the God question. I chose the topic to be get things off to a different type of start. If you check my last post to Dr. Mark, you will see that I actually suggested we move on to a more directly related "existence of God" question.

No, "the success or failure of Biblical sexuality as a moral precept" doesn't answer whether there is a god or not. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the bible is entirely right about how to have the best sexual morals... correlation doesn't prove causation. It could be a coincidence for all we know, because we can't demonstrate that the presence of such sexual codes in the bible caused or was caused by those same codes being beneficial to our sexual well-being. And to answer the "god question", you'd furthermore have to prove that causation came from a god (assuming that you could prove causation in the first place, which I assert that you can't).

But let's make it even easier to see why I'm right -- the Qur'an introduces the same sexual codes. It's not a coincidence -- Islam is an "Abrahamic tradition", which means it also shares the Old Testament with Judaism and Christianity. So does the alleged correctness of "Qur'anic sexuality as a moral precept" prove that the god of the Qur'an is a real and true god? I contend that you agree that it doesn't. Biblical/Qur'anic sexuality is irrelevant to those who want to debate the existence of a god.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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23-05-2013, 06:20 AM
RE: Attack a Theist
(22-05-2013 11:20 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(22-05-2013 07:09 AM)Mojch Wrote:  ***To Starcrash: The success or failure of Biblical sexuality as a moral precept is relevant to the God question. I chose the topic to be get things off to a different type of start. If you check my last post to Dr. Mark, you will see that I actually suggested we move on to a more directly related "existence of God" question.

No, "the success or failure of Biblical sexuality as a moral precept" doesn't answer whether there is a god or not. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the bible is entirely right about how to have the best sexual morals... correlation doesn't prove causation. It could be a coincidence for all we know, because we can't demonstrate that the presence of such sexual codes in the bible caused or was caused by those same codes being beneficial to our sexual well-being. And to answer the "god question", you'd furthermore have to prove that causation came from a god (assuming that you could prove causation in the first place, which I assert that you can't).

But let's make it even easier to see why I'm right -- the Qur'an introduces the same sexual codes. It's not a coincidence -- Islam is an "Abrahamic tradition", which means it also shares the Old Testament with Judaism and Christianity. So does the alleged correctness of "Qur'anic sexuality as a moral precept" prove that the god of the Qur'an is a real and true god? I contend that you agree that it doesn't. Biblical/Qur'anic sexuality is irrelevant to those who want to debate the existence of a god.

(Actually, while making the claim, Islam is NOT an "Abrahamic tradition". It's an Arabic moon-god cult tradition which *claimed* they had the same origins as the Abrahamics. In fact they had nothing in common, at all. Also in fact, the god "Sin" from which Allah was taken, was the ENEMY of Yahweh).
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ns?page=25

But my main point is that constantly, religionists, in using both the Old Testament and New Testament, commit the Genetic Fallacy. The origins of their customs were not from "religions" or gods. They came directly from their cultures, and appropriated by the cults. The cults were not responsible for the cultural innovations or advances. They merely sanctioned what was already going on in the general culture, and turned them into religious laws and teachings.
Religions advanced nothing. They originated nothing, that was not already going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

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23-05-2013, 06:34 AM
RE: Attack a Theist
(22-05-2013 01:38 PM)Mojch Wrote:  ***Morondog: Totally off-topic. Is there an actual dog behind your name or something?

...

There is no dog.


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23-05-2013, 08:41 AM
RE: Attack a Theist
Just finished reading Mark Fulton's last two posts in the Boxing Ring, wow.

One quote that caught my eye

(23-05-2013 04:23 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  If parents insist their kids be coached in Christianity, why not teach it when children are experienced enough to reason for themselves? There’s no need to indoctrinate and prejudice young minds. Geography, trigonometry, and economics are universally regarded as valuable, but nobody believes a five-year-old should be saturated with them.

Reminded me of this quote from the venerable Bertrand Russell

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way. Persecution is used in theology, not in arithmetic. "

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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23-05-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: Attack a Theist
Everyone,

Apologies for not posting today. I am drafting a concept that I hope will be beneficial to this discussion as a whole but it is lengthy. I will hopefully be finished with a rough post-able version by tomorrow. I will address other issues at that time.

Just didn't want anyone to think I disappeared! :-)

Sincerely,

Mojch
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23-05-2013, 02:13 PM
RE: Attack a Theist
(23-05-2013 01:39 PM)Mojch Wrote:  I am drafting a concept that I hope will be beneficial to this discussion as a whole but it is lengthy. I will hopefully be finished with a rough post-able version by tomorrow.

Is the draft longer than this sentence ? I *will* TL; DR you!
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23-05-2013, 02:35 PM
RE: Attack a Theist
Morondog,

This is the first thing I've read on here that utterly confounds me! :-) What do you mean by TL; DR me?

Sincerely,

Mojch
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