Attacks On Science from the Far Left
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09-06-2017, 09:14 AM
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(09-06-2017 09:01 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Pick a right wing climate change denier and a left wing environmentalist and, more than likely, neither of them really understand the data behind their arbitrarily chosen stance.
^^^
THIS x 100.
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09-06-2017, 09:23 AM
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(08-06-2017 08:53 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 07:33 PM)Dr H Wrote:  And there's a faction of the academic far right that does the same thing.

I always blink when I see a suggestion that all of academia consists of those from the "far left".
It might even be true of most of contemporary academia; I don't know. But it's certainly not universal.

I did my undergrad work at an extremely conservative science and engineering college. We had every flavor of ROTC there was, and a good third of the student body was involved with them. I saw a group of socialist speakers -- not communists, just socialists -- get physically run off from the "free speech" area of the student union. My 2nd year mechanical engineering prof ran for city mayor on the conservative -- not republican; conservative -- party ticket.

Academia contains both liberals and conservatives. Nearly all of them are very bright. A handful are outright geniuses. Most of them are reasonable people. Some are douchebags. And a few, pretty much everywhere, are outright wing-nuts.

Quite right. Both my parents are professors (though dad only teaches one night class, two days a week), and both are ULTRA-conservative. I attended a service Academy (USAFA) and two Louisiana universities... to my knowledge, I have never had a liberal professor, with one exception: a history professor whose poor interpretation of certain events led me to being ejected from her classroom when I objected, with facts presented to support my case (and show that her interpretation was one-sided). I also clashed with a Women's Studies professor whose class I was sitting in on with my (then) girlfriend, after she cited some biological concepts that were not supported by modern science (I was a biology major, at the time), and I piped up to point it out. So two interactions in all of college with "leftist" professors, both highly negative. Some of my professors, especially in physics and in history, were outspoken conservatives... but the latter group (history) listened politely to my objections, and invited me to write papers on the facts I felt supported my case, in every instance, and gave me good grades for my work. All positive interactions, even if I found some of their ideas repulsive-- and likely, vice-versa.

And yet, because I am myself an outspoken liberal who often would correct (usually by referencing Snopes) friends/family when they regurgitate "Alternative Facts" they pick up from Faux News or Rush Limbaugh, I am endlessly accused of being "corrupted", or some version of that idea, by "liberal college professors". I find the accusation both irritating and hilarious.

From what I've seen, I think the general spread of liberal vs. conservative among professors is roughly 3/4ths liberal... though that number changes and even reverses, depending on the field. Engineers and math professors, for instance, tend to be overwhelmingly conservative.

Ha, I could tell from reading your posts you were highly (and formally) educated. How was the Air Force Academy experience? My son has had some thoughts about Annapolis (I'm a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy Reserve) and I told him if he's serious he better start lining up his shit now (age 13, going into 8th grade) because of how competitive it is.
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09-06-2017, 10:00 AM
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(09-06-2017 08:24 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 06:14 AM)ImFred Wrote:  And to those who just naturally want to side with morondog because his rank number and supporter or mod status or whatever just fucking read about this bullshit and look at what he's defending.

ORLY? Defending people for doing their job is now utterly reprehensible huh? You could also have explained yourself, rather than advocating mindless violence. Dickhead.

They were exploding hydrogen bombs on pristine land where people lived. Doing their fucking jobs? Really? I'm the dickhead? What if someone is paid to incinerate your living space? I bet you wouldn't put much stock in the importance of their willingness to do their job then. What if your child died from radiation poisoning from eating fruit a decade later?

I'm not talking shit about mindless violence. I'm talking about revenge and justice. Mindless violence is dropping over 20 nuclear weapons on one of the most beautiful places on earth. Why would I be have to fucking explain why this was wrong?
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09-06-2017, 10:12 AM
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(09-06-2017 10:00 AM)ImFred Wrote:  I'm not talking shit about mindless violence. I'm talking about revenge and justice. Mindless violence is dropping over 20 nuclear weapons on one of the most beautiful places on earth. Why would I be have to fucking explain why this was wrong?
Where would you have dropped them? Keep in mind that the enemy is testing weapons at the same rate.
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09-06-2017, 12:15 PM
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(09-06-2017 09:01 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Pick a right wing climate change denier and a left wing environmentalist and, more than likely, neither of them really understand the data behind their arbitrarily chosen stance.

That seems rather a false equivalence to me. Can you point to any data that supports the right wing climate change denier?
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09-06-2017, 12:26 PM
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(09-06-2017 10:12 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:00 AM)ImFred Wrote:  I'm not talking shit about mindless violence. I'm talking about revenge and justice. Mindless violence is dropping over 20 nuclear weapons on one of the most beautiful places on earth. Why would I be have to fucking explain why this was wrong?
Where would you have dropped them? Keep in mind that the enemy is testing weapons at the same rate.

I would have not have built them in the first place.
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09-06-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(09-06-2017 12:15 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 09:01 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Pick a right wing climate change denier and a left wing environmentalist and, more than likely, neither of them really understand the data behind their arbitrarily chosen stance.

That seems rather a false equivalence to me. Can you point to any data that supports the right wing climate change denier?

Sure. The fact that certain bodies of ice are increasing in size regardless of what the rest are doing. The fact that some areas aren't necessarily experiencing increased temperatures regardless of what the rest of the world is experiencing. The fact that while some regions science record settin heat waves, others experience record setting snow falls. Little tidbits like that seem relevant to someone who doesn't understand the bigger picture. And in any case, I stand by my assertion that the vast majority of the people who do believe in climate change don't understand why they believe in it. They just happened to pick the right side. The point is that all sides are composed predominantly of people who are not scientifically literate and who do not, as a general rule, apply the process of skeptical analyses when assimilating new information and taking stances on important issues. Sure, within those parties are everything from religious leaders to scientists. Those people are in the minority, however, and it's their charisma which wins people over, not their logic or lack thereof. Most people do not know how to interpret data.

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09-06-2017, 12:43 PM (This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 12:47 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(09-06-2017 09:23 AM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  Ha, I could tell from reading your posts you were highly (and formally) educated. How was the Air Force Academy experience? My son has had some thoughts about Annapolis (I'm a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy Reserve) and I told him if he's serious he better start lining up his shit now (age 13, going into 8th grade) because of how competitive it is.

I got into Annapolis, too, but chose USAFA because of their superior Aerospace Engineering program, which is what I wanted to study, at the time. They are both outstanding schools, and I highly recommend the experience. They call Academy graduates "ring knockers" because, supposedly, if you knock on any door with your graduation ring, you're guaranteed to get the job-- for the rest of your life. After your service, of course-- it's 7 years of service in exchange for 4 years of free, top-shelf education. Had I not fallen ill, I would very much liked to have continued through to graduation. I learned so much in my couple of years there.

At USNA, they look at your grades from 9th-12th grade, so Now Is The Time™ if he wants to be a serious contender. For USAFA, they only look at the 10th grade and up, so he has a little bit of time, but he'd do well to start studying math (AP Calculus, if his high school offers it) and chemistry especially hard RIGHT NOW-- the programs at the Academies don't fuck around-- and to start developing exceptional time management skills. Teach him to start working with a day-planner program.

He also needs to start playing a sport (preferably a team one), and getting a LOT of extracurricular programs to put on his resume: things like Chess Team will do, but I'd recommend getting him into things like political clubs, Debate/Forensics, and any other public speaking and/or leadership programs he can manage. If the high school has a JROTC program, get him in it! The recommendation from his JROTC commander, usually a Reserve Officer himself, will go a long way, but must be earned.

Finally, he needs to get in physical shape. Not just "I play sports" shape, but "I want to be competitive among the most highly competitive individuals one could imagine during training exercises, Physical Fitness Tests, and on full-battle-rattle runs" shape. He should start running every other evening, working his way to doing so in combat boots.

If he wants any other tips, I'd be glad to help. Even if he doesn't get into USAFA/USMA/USNA, the things he learns while trying to do so will help him greatly in college and in his life. Tell him to read this post if he thinks you're just pushing him without basis-- I am not even remotely exaggerating with a single one of those points. It's difficult to even get an appointment from a congressman, and not all appointees get accepted, then.

Edit: I got it backward. USAFA looks at 10th-12th grade academic performance, while USNA looks at all four years of high school, even though not everywhere in the USA considers 9th grade to be "high school". Fixed. And I also forgot to mention the importance of his SAT/ACT scores.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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09-06-2017, 12:53 PM
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(09-06-2017 12:37 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Sure. The fact that certain bodies of ice are increasing in size regardless of what the rest are doing. The fact that some areas aren't necessarily experiencing increased temperatures regardless of what the rest of the world is experiencing. The fact that while some regions science record settin heat waves, others experience record setting snow falls. Little tidbits like that seem relevant to someone who doesn't understand the bigger picture. And in any case, I stand by my assertion that the vast majority of the people who do believe in climate change don't understand why they believe in it. They just happened to pick the right side. The point is that all sides are composed predominantly of people who are not scientifically literate and who do not, as a general rule, apply the process of skeptical analyses when assimilating new information and taking stances on important issues. Sure, within those parties are everything from religious leaders to scientists. Those people are in the minority, however, and it's their charisma which wins people over, not their logic or lack thereof. Most people do not know how to interpret data.

Yes, some people don't understand the difference between weather and climate.

I still think you are too cynical in your assessment of people. For data, environmentalists only have to point to rising CO2 levels, rising global temperatures, rising sea levels, melting glaciers and ice caps, increased extreme weather events and so on. That's easy and accurate, and that general information is quite abundantly available these days.

So I still maintain that denial for cultural reasons is much more common on the right, where the evidence is lacking.
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09-06-2017, 01:34 PM
RE: Attacks On Science from the Far Left
(09-06-2017 12:43 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 09:23 AM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  Ha, I could tell from reading your posts you were highly (and formally) educated. How was the Air Force Academy experience? My son has had some thoughts about Annapolis (I'm a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy Reserve) and I told him if he's serious he better start lining up his shit now (age 13, going into 8th grade) because of how competitive it is.

I got into Annapolis, too, but chose USAFA because of their superior Aerospace Engineering program, which is what I wanted to study, at the time. They are both outstanding schools, and I highly recommend the experience. They call Academy graduates "ring knockers" because, supposedly, if you knock on any door with your graduation ring, you're guaranteed to get the job-- for the rest of your life. After your service, of course-- it's 7 years of service in exchange for 4 years of free, top-shelf education. Had I not fallen ill, I would very much liked to have continued through to graduation. I learned so much in my couple of years there.

At USNA, they look at your grades from 9th-12th grade, so Now Is The Time™ if he wants to be a serious contender. For USAFA, they only look at the 10th grade and up, so he has a little bit of time, but he'd do well to start studying math (AP Calculus, if his high school offers it) and chemistry especially hard RIGHT NOW-- the programs at the Academies don't fuck around-- and to start developing exceptional time management skills. Teach him to start working with a day-planner program.

He also needs to start playing a sport (preferably a team one), and getting a LOT of extracurricular programs to put on his resume: things like Chess Team will do, but I'd recommend getting him into things like political clubs, Debate/Forensics, and any other public speaking and/or leadership programs he can manage. If the high school has a JROTC program, get him in it! The recommendation from his JROTC commander, usually a Reserve Officer himself, will go a long way, but must be earned.

Finally, he needs to get in physical shape. Not just "I play sports" shape, but "I want to be competitive among the most highly competitive individuals one could imagine during training exercises, Physical Fitness Tests, and on full-battle-rattle runs" shape. He should start running every other evening, working his way to doing so in combat boots.

If he wants any other tips, I'd be glad to help. Even if he doesn't get into USAFA/USMA/USNA, the things he learns while trying to do so will help him greatly in college and in his life. Tell him to read this post if he thinks you're just pushing him without basis-- I am not even remotely exaggerating with a single one of those points. It's difficult to even get an appointment from a congressman, and not all appointees get accepted, then.

Edit: I got it backward. USAFA looks at 10th-12th grade academic performance, while USNA looks at all four years of high school, even though not everywhere in the USA considers 9th grade to be "high school". Fixed. And I also forgot to mention the importance of his SAT/ACT scores.

Good stuff, thanks. He's got a lot of the things you mentioned going already - he's outstanding at football, and he just took the ACT as a 7th grader and scored a 20 composite, with a 26 in science. Next year he'll be taking 9th grade math, which would put him on track to take Calculus before graduation. The time management thing is the big issue - he's got moderate ADHD and staying on task and focusing are often his biggest challenges. He's super smart though, and I think the structure of a service academy would actually be really beneficial for him. He spent some time in the Sea Cadets and really enjoyed it.

Thanks again for the response!
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